They’re taking bold steps, reinterpreting Islamic norms and re-examining taboos. While far from accepted by mainstream clerics, these worshippers feel that the future of the religion lies not solely with tradition but with them. Women are leading congregations in prayer, gay imams are performing Islamic marriages, and men and women are praying side by side.
This is not the norm for most of the 2.6 million-strong American Islamic community, accustomed to centuries-old traditions of gender relations and houses of worship that tend to draw primarily from a single ethnic group.
“We can’t move forward as a society, as a faith system, if we subscribe to these old draconian ways of practicing Islam,” says Ani Zonneveld, who is the president of Muslims for Progressive Values. A 49-year-old singer-songwriter who lives in Los Angeles, she leads prayers for men and women together and tells gay Muslims, often shunned in other mosques, that their religion welcomes them.
Tagged: Progressive Islam Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts
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aziz
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johnpi
A critique of some disparaging comments from Yasmin Alibhai-Brown about white converts:
…if, as Alibhai-Brown states, white converts are whimsies that Progressive Muslims have no time for, how can converts be blamed for seeking communities that will accept them? [ie, conservative communities]
Even when it blatantly conflicts with the values otherwise expressed, people still fall into the puritanical error, giving rise to stridency, narrow-mindedness and carping.
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Willow
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Pretty Pink Unicorns
I always feel like a jinn in fleshly form whenever I try to go to a masjid or other place. As for Progressives, I’ve never met a masjid that had them…
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Safiya Outlines
Salaam Alaikum,
PPU, I’m intrigued, how exactly do you feel like a jinn in fleshly form?
P.S Thanks for the link!
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johnpi
Tired of trying to co-opt moderate, liberal, and progressive Muslims, some rightwingers are now resorting to identity theft.
Richard Bartholomew writes that Gina Khan, a Muslim activist against extremism in the UK, is listed as an officer on the Facebook page of the group that calls itself the ‘The Cheerleaders’, a bunch of self-described anti-Islamist vigilantes, who have excelled at threatening mostly moderate and progressive Muslim bloggers, and especially liberal critics of conservative politicians in the UK, like blogger Tim Ireland. (Again, I see this theme of ‘Eurocon’ extremists using an anti-Muslim platform to attack a bigger ideological target, European liberalism – which has been done before).
After I published a mocking post about them last year, the Cheerleaders – or the individual who pretends to be the group – threatened several Talk Islam contributors and published their home addresses online. They (or he) also sent mail to at least one TI contributor’s house.
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thabet
Anyone happy to work with Douglas Murray deserves little attention.
She’s also had the chance to write articles for The Times.
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johnpi
It may very well turn out that she is affiliated with the Cheerleaders. I’ve never heard of this person before Bartholomew wrote about her. But there is nothing going on with that group that should be taken at face value.
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Nic
Johnpi. Nothing Bartholomew or Ireland writes should be taken at face value either!
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johnpi
That’s fair. In the future I’ll be more restrained in my comments about Mr. WIghtman.
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Angelina Ramirez
Identity Theft is so rampant these days because it is quite easy to harvest information from someone else.”`:
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Blake Rogers
identity theft is rampant both in online and offline settings. better be careful;”:
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johnpi
Takfiring Michael Muhammad Knight.
Umar reviles Knight as a fraud, a kafir and a white supremacist:
Knight stated ” I still identify as Muslim”. Maybe this is something he has got from Reformed Jews whose foundation is disbelief in Judaism while wanting to maintain an attachment to the community. This is what Progressive Islam seeks to be; a community with a foundation of disbelief still wanting to identify themselves in some way as Muslims. But, unlike Judaism which has a dual existence as a religion and ethnic tribe and once you are born to a Jewish woman you are a Jew even if you are an atheist, Islam is a community of belief. Cease believing and you cease being Muslim and all of the rights of a Muslim be it marriage, burial, and what not are no longer available to you. I can “identify as a Romanov” but the blood of Russian royalty does not run through my veins so my claim need not be taken seriously.
In closing I will also say that the sad tale of Mr. Knight whose life would have been much better if he would have went to jihad in Chechnya and died for the cause of Islam before leaving the deen is also a white story. There are a lot of white Muslims I love dearly and have known for years ; Ismail Royer, Imam Suhaib Webb, Brother Muadh, Abu Noor, etc. However, Mr. Knight does represent a certain kind of Muslim that has grown since 9-11 ( where a white guy can get liberal street cred for converting to the religion of the oppressed).
What’s needed is for people who are struggling with Islam as Knight has and does is to not give up on it.
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null
I don’t think Umar accuses Mike of “white supremacism”, as much as he does of arrogance and perhaps holding (a subconscious?) white privilege.
I don’t know what’s been happening with Michael that would prompt that strongly worded piece by Umar at this time, but I’d rather see more constructive posts such as the previous one on his blog about Ismail Royer, rather than ones tearing Michael Knight and others a new one. All these issues that he brought up – and many of the points I actually agree with- could be discussed without singling out or insulting anyone. Tacky.
In the end these types of “exposes” only make a person feel even more estranged from Islam. I don’t think that’s a burden anyone Muslim wants on their head.
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bingregory
I’ve argued with UL before for giving white converts a hard time, but I think he nailed it this time. UL doesn’t call MMK a white supremacist, he says there’s something racist about his shtick, which there undoubtedly is. The undeniable one is the mountains of media attention he has gotten – he wouldn’t have those glam NYT write-ups if he wasn’t white. The one that Umar talks about more specifically is a variant on the Dances with Smurfs syndrome whereby
“a white guy manages to get himself accepted into a closed society of people of color and eventually becomes its most awesome member.” [SWPD]
If MMK was simply struggling with his faith, he’d have my sympathies. But the public spectacle he’s engaged in now looks like pathological white delusion and it makes me ill to think about what white America sees when they look at MMK.
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
I’m with BinGregory on this one. Alhamdulillaah I was able to spend some time today with Umar, who’s in town for the MAS/ICNA convention here in Chicago. Always interesting conversation….:)
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bingregory
According to this interview, MMK
describes his engagement with Islam in America as “intellectually black and socially South Asian.”
Heh.
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johnpi
The progressive Islamist position on homosexuality:
“As an Islamist I cannot condone homosexuality, and I cannot render halal that which is seen as haram in Islam, anymore than I can declare alcohol to be halal. But this I can say: when confronted by things like this, we have two choices: the hard choice or the soft choice. We can take the hard line and say that homosexuals are wrong and they ought to be punished. Or we can take the soft line and say that they are a gendered minority, and while they are practicing something we do not approve, we should defend them when they come under attack and we should counsel them. As an Islamist, I choose the latter, because for me Islam is still the religion of love, not hate.”
Noor comments:
For Islamism to even remain relevant today, Islamists (like the ones I mentioned above) will have to understand that we live in modern democratic societies where laws and governance are measured in the public eye in terms of concrete long term results. All the hate-campaigns and pogroms of groups like Fron Pembela Islam in Indonesia have done nothing for Muslims there, but only worsened the prejudice against Islamists in toto. Rather than hot air and fiery rhetoric, Islamists need to demonstrate that they can govern justly in plural societies and learn to live with difference and diversity. Demonising gays, non-Muslims, women and other minorities is no longer a gimmick that works, and in fact is now counter-productive.
To this it should be added that the ’soft’ Islamist approach to dealing with real social issues should not be seen as the ‘weak’ approach neither. Just because an Islamist renounces violence and violent hateful rhetoric, doesnt make him/her a lame Islamist with no teeth. In fact, the reality is precisely the opposite: It is only when Islamists stop wasting our time with silly bans on concerts and movies, and stop scaring us with threats of demonstrations and pogroms, that they will be taken seriously. If Islamists really want power, then they ought to demonstrate an adult and rational ability to deal with power and its mechanics. Anything else is just empty sloganeering and posturing, and ought to be left on the soap-box with the other peddlers of nonsense and hype.
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null
Very interesting…
It still somewhat surprises me to see Muslims embrace the term Islamist as such…
The issue of homosexuality was one of the things that at first made me embrace progressive Islam back in the day (hehe, like 4 years ago), and ultimately the issue that made me finally renounce it (like 2 years ago). So its interesting to see the words “progressive Islamist” as an introduction to this article.
Nice find John.
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pi.info
It’s interesting how these terms like “progressive” and “Islamist” have become so compromised and problematical in the West. I think that’s partially why I’m attracted to blogs, news and other stories out of Malaysia and Indonesia. They seem to still have the ability to frankly and earnestly talk about, own and explore these terms and the ideas behind them.
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null
“Progressive Islam” probably all but imploded in the West/ America. I don’t think MWU even exists anymore..? It’s a shame, because there were some very intelligent and thoughtful contributors on their forums – even if the frontpage was sometimes a little over the top and reactionary.
I would guess that the term progressive means different things in Muslim majority countries than it does here.
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Willow
I hung around that site for about 6 mos, then ran away screaming. I think it was the pornography that finally put me over the edge. What do you even say to that?
Anyway, as William Safire (rest in something) once said, only kick a person when he’s up. That movement has been thoroughly critiqued.
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null
Heh. I thought the forums were quite good actually. I wish I could remember the names of the contributors that I liked – but a convert gentleman based in Riyadh and a gay Muslim physician – both with a traditionalist bent were absolute fonts of knowledge. Ironic that it took the premier progressive site to get me interested in the type of traditional Islam my parents practiced all along.
I hung around that site for about 6 mos, then ran away screaming.
I must be confusing you with someone else Willow, because I had in my mind (don’t ask me why/how!) that you were one of the original proggies.
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pi.info
All this stuff is before my time.
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Willow
Nah, I was actually late to the party. By the time I got interested in Prog Islam some of the founding members had already started to defect.
I was the token conservo on a splinter site, ProgressiveIslam.org, for a few months, along with Eteraz and some other people…maybe that’s what you’re thinking of? That didn’t work out either; never quite felt ideologically at home in the movement, even on its more traditionalist fringe.
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null
Yes, that’s it.
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Willow
PS Sorry for the shop-talk John; I know this stuff isn’t germane to the kind of Progressive Islam you’re talking about. I’m interested to see more of your ideological conception of the movement, which seems much more like what was originally intended by its founders. (Some of whom are quite educated and devout people, which is why they left when the nuts took over.)
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Safiya Outlines
Salaam Alaikum,
I initially found MWU very refreshing, but soon tired of seeing 2:256 (no compulsion in religion) as a tool for justifying anything.
I also remember a very well known journalist having a massive hissy fit in the comments section. I’ve never been able to take them seriously since.
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null
Did her first name rhyme with …Zona?
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hakim
as-salaamu ‘alaykum
I wish I could remember the names of the contributors that I liked – but a convert gentleman based in Riyadh and a gay Muslim physician – both with a traditionalist bent were absolute fonts of knowledge.
The convert was Omar (ootii) and the physician was Hussein. I was one of the mods before the site went down; a group of us including the above two set up another board at http://www.monotheizm.com , but it isn’t very active — though both of them post occasionally.
salaam
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pi.info
Waleikum salaam Hakim.
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null
The convert was Omar (ootii) and the physician was Hussein. I was one of the mods before the site went down; a group of us including the above two set up another board at http://www.monotheizm.com
Waleikum salaam Hakim,
Thankyou so much for posting the link! It’s good to see all those familiar names. Ahhh, grahame! I’ll be reading.
Salaam
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hakim
Most of the posts that Jamal could salvage from the old MWU board are in the “Quran Study” section. They’re jumbled up but there is still some good reading to be had if you can make sense of the threads.
Feel free to join in, if you like. Right now discussion is pretty thin on the ground there.
I like TI very much, BTW, it reminds me of some of the better times on the MWU board.
salaam
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null
I’m doubly pleased to see you were able to salvage some of the content from the old boards. There was a lot of beneficial content in there.
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thabet
I don’t recall it ever really taking off in the UK.
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Safiya Outlines
How did you guess?
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null
I’m just very good at rhyming.
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buzz
Did I say something wrong?
The cost of leaving will be abandoning people like this
Parwiz Kambakhsh, the 20-year old student/journalist who was first sentenced to death, then secretly sentenced to 20 years in prison last December has been freed and has left Afghanistan. Sources told Kabul Press that Parwiz was released from prison several days ago to visit with his family, then was taken to an unknown destination outside Afghanistan. It is unlikely that he will return to Afghanistan any time soon due to threats against him and his family for his alleged “blasphemy” for distributing an article on women’s rights to a few friends at his university—which he firmly denies.
Source: Kabul Press
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thabet
Err, he was jailed by the new, “democratic”, Afghan regime — the one which our politicians tell us our soldiers must die for.
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Buzz
Errr…According to the story, local leadership bowed to religious fundamentalists and was released finally directly by Karzai.
Unless you think the US has planted Muslim religious fundamentalists?
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thabet
‘Religious fundos’ are part of the Afghan judiciary.:
Kambakhsh and Zalmai are caught in a web of politics and religion.
Of course Karzai released him. Ways were found, just as they were in the case of Abdul Rahman.
Unless you think the US has planted Muslim religious fundamentalists?
ZZzzzzzzzz. You really are American and Muslim aren’t you? Always on the look out for ‘anti-Americanism’ just like Muslims are always on the look out for ‘Islamophobia’. Please get over your victimhood mentality already
As it happens, I answer no to your question. It’s just the US and Western allies have let themselves become tied very closely to the current Afghan regime and the ‘new Afghanistan’.
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Buzz
Please get over your victimhood mentality already
No. You get over it. It is not helpful to be so narrow minded and prejudice.
Your position is ridiculous. The United States does not own every flaw of Afghan society and every action done. The same is the case in Iraq. Americans are not responsible for suicide bombings and so forth. This is really simplistic thinking. When you say…
he was jailed by the new, “democratic”, Afghan regime
this is what you are suggesting….that this is some NEW development that the US is responsible for. It is not.
The fact is, there are very religiously conservative factions in Afghanistan which have nothing to do with the US and if/when the US leaves, these people will again be able to oppress women and silence voices for change with impunity.
Which is exactly what I said.
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thabet
You got me, Buzz.
What I really believe is that dastardly American officials and CIA operatives (and why not throw in Mossad?) secretly ship these fundos in to make Islam look bad, all so they can steal the oil. Or something.
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buzz
You tend to beat on the United States as a default position. Lots of people do. It is fasionable. People make a living in Europe writing stinky anti-American articles. Who cares?
All I am saying is America is a big place, like Britain or Iran or China. Not all good nor all bad.
It is easy to find articles about this or that. They knowledge and the value and the important insights are in-between, not in the defacto Muslim Anti-American pedagogy. This isn’t an online madrasa, is it? Hopefully we are all after something a little more enlightened.
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thabet
All I am saying is America is a big place, like Britain or Iran or China. Not all good nor all bad.
Wrong. It is all evil. And much worse than Iran or China. Much, much worse.
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Buzz
We’ll see. I appreciate your honesty.
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Buzz
In other words…clearly: I do not have the problem of perspective – you do.
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Buzz
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plimfix
I love America. I love it’s Imperialism, it’s scientific literacy, it’s deeply spiritual Christianity, and I especially love Alan Greenspan. And I know lots of Americans love those things the way I do.
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buzz
Something to bend Eliza’s mind a little…
BAHRAIN:
Seeking Gender Equality in QuranSuad Hamada
MANAMA, Aug 25 (IPS) – For the first time, feminists in Bahrain are seeking new Islamic perspectives on gender and women’s empowerment, and asking for modern interpretations of the Quran.
Through a series of four workshops, launched in May, the Bahrain Women Association for Development intends to engage the public in serious debate over the “true meaning” of Quranic verses that are used to assert male supremacy.
“We aren’t against Islam and don’t want to promote our perspective,” explains Asma Rajab, an activist and member of its board of directors. “We want to make our society consider women as complete humans.”
With the advances made by Muslim women in many countries including Bahrain, it is time to reinterpret the Quranic verses, she adds. “Islam is a renewable religion that fits all situations and periods, so its regulations should be re-interpreted to meet the advancements of Muslim women,” she says.
Social practices that violate women’s rights include the law of male guardianship, unequal inheritance, domestic violence and testimony in Shariah courts. Also, the widespread belief that Islam forbids women from becoming presidents, judges and parliamentarians.
These are against Islamic principles, the Association asserts, publicly throwing a challenge to religious scholars and others who insist that women are inferior to men.
The workshops on “Woman, a Renewable Perspective” have been organised to correct centuries of misunderstanding that gender discrimination has religious sanction. The second workshop in the series was held on Aug. 15. The third has been scheduled for December.
“To change the men-oriented societies, the Muslim world should accept the flexibility of the Quran and Islamic thoughts,” advises Rajab.
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abunoor
Samson Raphael Hirsch responds to the argument of Progressive
IslamJudaism in the 19th century.Now what about the principle, the much-vaunted, world-redeeming principle of “religion allied to progress7 If it is to be a principle–something more than an empty phrase meant for show–it must have a definable content and we must be permitted to try to clarify it. In the expression “religion allied to progress,” progress is evidently intended to qualify religion. Indeed, this is the very essence of the “idea,” not religion by itself, but religion only to the extent and in so far as it can co-exist with progress, in so far as one does not have to sacrifice progress to religion. The claim of religion is therefore not absolute but is valid only by permission of “progress.” What, then, is this higher authority to which religion is therefore not absolute but is valid only by permission of “progress”? What, then, is this higher authority to which religion has to appeal in order to gain admission? What is this “progress”? Evidently not progress in the sphere of religion, for then the expression would amount to “religion allied to itself” which is nonsense. It means, then, progress in every sphere other than religion. Speaking frankly, therefore, it means: religion as long as it does not hinder progress, religion as long as it is not onerous or inconvenient.. ..
The subordination of religion to any other factor means the denial of religion: for if the Torah is to you the Law of God how dare you place another law above it and go along with God and His Law only as long as you thereby “progress” in other respects at the same time? You must admit it: it is only because “religion” does not mean to you the word of God, because in your heart you deny Divine Revelation, because you believe not in Revelation given to man but in Revelation from man, that you can give man the right to lay down conditions to religion.
“Religion allied to progress”–do you know, dear reader, what that means? Virtue allied to sensual enjoyment, rectitude allied to advancement, uprightness allied to success. It means a religion and a morality which can be preached also in the haunts of vice and iniquity. It means sacrificing religion and morality to every man’s momentary whim. It allows every man to fix his own goal and progress in any direction he pleases and to accept from religion only that part which does not hinder his “progress” or even assist it. It is the cardinal sin which Moses of old described as “a casual walking with God.” Civilisation and culture–we all treasure those glorious and inalienable possessions of mankind. We all desire that the good and the true, all that is attainable by human thought and human will-power, should be the common heritage of all men. But to make religion–which is the mother and father of all civilisation and culture–dependent upon the progress of this same civilisation and culture would mean throwing it into the melting-pot of civilisation; it would mean turning the root into the blossom; it would mean crowning the human edifice with that which should be its foundation and cornerstone.
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pi.info
This treatment (the part before he launches into agitprop) could be abstracted to any adjective you apply to the word Islam, including ‘orthodox.’ ‘Orthodox Islam’ is a label for a group of people and a set of beliefs and practices. Otherwise, the phrase “orthodox Islam’ would be redundant.
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abunoor
John,
If you read the article, this is exactly why Hirsch initially rejeced the term Orthodox which was a label first used by the Progressives as an insult.
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Len
It reads exactly as something an Islamic traditionalist/orthodox scholar would write.
I realize that I’ve been using traditionalist/orthodox as the antonym for “progressive”…but I probably should be clearer on the terms I used. When I say traditionalist, I’m referring to madhab-following Muslims (apparently, “traditionalist” can be used to refer to people like Vali Nasr also?). When I say Orthodox, I mean a more general term for anyone “strict” in their belief/implementation of aqidah/fiqh, regardless of whether they are Salafi or adhere to a madhab, or if they follow “all four imams” or whatever (I feel that someone can be practicing, but not necessarily “strict” in their practice). I think this is just semantics, but I wanted to clarify anyway.
I’ll probably have more to say on this later.
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thabet
When I say traditionalist, I’m referring to madhab-following Muslims (apparently, “traditionalist” can be used to refer to people like Vali Nasr also?).
I believe you mean Seyyed Hossein Nasr? I don’t know if Nasr Jr is a perrenialist. Confusingly, perrenialists are also sometimes referred to as ‘traditionalists’ amongst English-speaking Muslims. The two (non-perrenialist traditionalism of the Sunni madhab kind and Perrenialists like Nasr Sr) have a lot in common: critics of the loss of the sacred in the modern world, sceptics about the truth claims of science, etc). But on matters of hard aqida, Perrenialists would be considered outside the fold by Sunni traditionalists, or at the very best on its fuzzy boundaries (Nasr is Shia-leaning so that may take him outside anyway. His Sunni equivalent is Martin Lings.)
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Len
Yes, I meant the elder Nasr, not Vali Nasr. Whoops.
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Len
But behold! The prophet of the new message came into their midst with the cry of “religion allied to progress”; he filled the blank, pacified their conscience and wiped out their shame. With this magic word he turned irreligion into Godliness, apostasy into priesthood, sin into merit, frivolity into virtue, weakness into strength, thoughtlessness into profundity. By this one magic phrase he distilled the ancient world-ranging spirit of the Torah into a single aromatic drop of perfume so fragrant that in the most elegant party dress they could carry it round with them in their waistcoat pockets without being ashamed. By means of it, he carved out of the ponderous old rock-hewn Tablets of the Law ornamental figures so tiny that people gladly found room for them on smart dressing tables, in drawing-rooms and ballrooms.
I think this sort of argument is my main beef with orthodox folks. While reform/progressive minded individuals would probably consider orthodox-minded people religious examples and their brothers and sisters in the same religion, the orthodox view of the non-orthodox is that they’re nothing but debased sinners.
In any case, elsewhere on that same site, when looking through the reform Judaism links and looking at some of their goals, you can find the following:
Distinction between goals (primarily theological) and means (practices, etc.)
Islamic example: goal – modesty. means – purdah.
Conviction that their current situation was radically different from previous eras
This seems obvious.
Rabbinic literature is not binding (though could be used as a source of guidance)
Overreliance on positions within a madhab, for example.
Use of academic study of Jewish history and literature (Wissenschaft des Judentums) in support of Reform positions
Is it always wise to reject analysis done on Islam by academic scholars, whether they’re Muslim or non-Muslim? I mean, we’ll sit here and nod or shake our heads when someone writes something we like or don’t like, or we’ll comment on how interesting an academic analysis of one particular aspect of Islam is…but to me, there does not seem to be an large-scale effort to incorporate such ideas or reconcile certain aspects of Islam with new findings and analyses. Some people will screech at the idea of borrowing non-Islamic methodologies (i.e. Western academic principles) and analyzing Islam with it, but I have doubts about whether Islamic scholars are able to be completely honest and objective when analyzing Islamic history.
Again, I’ll go with the optimistic view: you can look at reform movements as a group of people who accept changes happening all around them, but wish to hold on to their faith while still engaging with the rest of the non-Jewish/non-Muslim world. The modern world, especially in NA and Europe, isn’t friendly to religious people…maybe that’s not the way it should be, but that’s the way it is. The easiest option would just be to give up on religion completely or have one of those “personal relationships with God” that involves nothing at all…but reform Jewish congregations (and maybe eventually progressive Muslim congregations) can provide more than that.
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johnpi
An article on reformist opposition to religious conservatism and extremism that alleges that such behavior devolves into an infringement on First Amendment rights has been posted at AltMuslim and City of Brass:
Such reformist approaches, in their quest for progress or even human rights, fail to recognize the effects of their actions on their co-religionist’s fundamental right to free religious expression. It is an infringement of free speech and free exercise rights when mosque leaders and sermon-givers do not voice their conservative views because of their fear of being equated with violent extremists by government authorities.
The author criticizes Nomani for providing no evidence of a link between conservatism and extremism, and yet provides no evidence herself for the assertion that there is a link between ‘reformist approaches’ and police persecution, or fear of police persecution.
This could be a new twist (and a very American one with its appeal to constitutional rights) on an old effort to suppress reform-minded Muslims. While I don’t believe Nomani holds ‘the’ answer, I believe she and her fellow travelers are part of it. Here are some words from a rabbi who is working against conservatives and extremists in her own community on behalf of Palestinian human rights:
Resistance is sometimes rowdy. Naturally, the side of privilege and status quo demand politeness from resisters in order to maintain decorum. Well, politeness isn’t always the best way to go in a situation where you have never been given a voice in the first place. While I am a proponent of compassionate listening, I learned from people of color that interrupting the language of hatred and racism also has a place.
Interrupting the language of hatred and racism also has a place.
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Safia
The article bothered me as well, thanks for putting it into words. Excellent quote from the rabbi.
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razib, murtad fitri
if people aren’t willing to be loud & proud about what they’re preachin’ about lest it be publicized, perhaps they shouldn’t preach it.
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Pretty Pink Unicorns
Sing it, murtad fitri!
… a term I would never call you if you didn’t make it your official title, by the way. I enjoy the diverse presence of thinkers on this site, and how I don’t get banned for being any of the following: an uppity woman, an ismaili, a lesbian, a transsexual…
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Tec15
>> The author criticizes Nomani for providing no evidence of a link between conservatism and extremism, and yet provides no evidence herself for the assertion that there is a link between ‘reformist approaches’ and police persecution, or fear of police persecution.
The warblings of self proclaimed ‘reformists’ like Ed Hussain, Asra Nomani, Irshad Manji, Hrisi Ali,etc is frequently used by professional Islamophobes as cover when attacking Muslims and or Islam (In the ‘Look even these moderate Muslims agree with me’ manner). Outfits, such as the Centre for Social Cohesion, the Hudson Institute, etc which are influental among decision makers also frequently cite them, while advocating measures that restrict the civil rights of Muslims. So it is not a big leap to think that there is a direct link between them and police persecution. More insidious, in my opinion is their willingness and ability to set the terms of the debate through the platforms they have in the mainstream media (One denied to people who are not gratuitously critical of Muslims and Islam for the benefit of Western audiences). Nomani’s concern trollery and strawmen demoltion act during the ‘Jewel of Medina’ farce in the pages of the Wall Street Journal’s opinion pages is a prime example (The WSJ was taking a small break from advocating the nuking of Iran and establishment of a flat tax).
Secondly, being critical of ‘reformists’ such as Nomani is hardly supressing them, as more people are likely to read their inane blather in the many mainstream media organization’s that give them a platform then are ever likely to read AltMuslimah or City of Brass. I say this as someone who was critical of Asma T.Uddin’s last few articles.
Lastly, the comparison between self serving “reformists” like Nomani and people working against Zionist extremism is incongruous. The greater originator of ‘the language of hatred and racism’ are likely to be the neo con institutes that the “reformists” are heavily in bed with, and not the regular Muslims who are the targets of the same “reformist’s'” self righteous and condescending harangues.
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eliza
I think we can forbid actions, but not speech. Interrupting is a good idea.
You can say Jews, women, bahai, etc are evil and will be destroyed by God.
You can’t say Hey, there are some Jews, women, bahai, etc over there on the sidewalk let’s go kill them. -
eliza
If you are saying such things in your mosque don’t get all surprised if others start saying it is you are evil and should be destroyed, or that a mosque is a hate factory..
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abunoor
Over at Muslim Matters, Shaykh Yasir Qadhi gives an “insider’s” perspective on participating in the Doha Debates.
Shaykh Yasir debated, among others, Asra Nomani, on the motion ‘This house believes that Muslim women should be free to marry anyone they choose’.
The debate itself will be aired June 6 and 7.
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aziz
this seems somewhat obvious. Whats the opposing viewpoint? that women shouldnt be allowed to choose? that men choose for them? Im confused what there is to debate here.
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aziz
ahh – i read the whole piece. great link, Abu Noor.
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Pretty Pink Unicorns, and 
johnpi, and 2 others are discussing. 
null are discussing. 
thabet, 
hakim, and 3 others are discussing. 
Buzz, and 
Len, 
eliza, 
Tec15, 
aziz is discussing. 
The anti-convert, Islamic nativist aspect of Prog Islam was one of the big reasons I ran away screaming. She’s not wrong about that. Prog Muslims have zero convert outreach, despite all the clap-trap about wanting to create an alternative to ultraconservatism.