I see no one really talks about Libya any more.
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thabet
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thabet
‘One third of Germans prefer a Germany without Islam’.
You can make your own Nazi jokes.
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Hitch
I wish there was context for this. For example given the Minnesota study non-believers are even less trusted than Muslims in the US. So if three questions were asked: Would you prefer a US without non-christians? Or without Muslims? Or without jews? Or without atheists? What would the percentages be? Take other stigmatized groups? How many people, for example would prefer their country to be without homosexuality? Etc etc. 1/3 is bad. But how bad is it in the scheme of general levels of intolerance and bigotry?
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svend
Not that I’m an expert on Germanica, but, to give the proverbial devil his due, Germany has long had a problem with xenophobia and provincialism (my “favorite” example: the cases–which caused fierce soul-searching–of Germany soccer stadiums reverberating with monkey calls when black players from opposing teams showed up). Unfortunately, a disproportionate percentage of foreigners there and in the rest of Europe hail from Muslim-majority countries, do Islam is the “natural” target of xenophobes and extreme nationalists.
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svend
The intensity of the prejudice and disdain this guy encountered while in black face is quite sobering.
http://akramsrazor.typepad.com/islam_america/2010/03/black-like-me-in-germany.html
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thabet
This is a daft idea:
How about we clear the upper chamber of our legislature of the so-called Lords Spiritual?
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thabet
Having said that, if it is acceptable to have Anglican bishops, it is good enough for Muslim, Catholic, Pentecostal, Hindu, etc religious representatives to be there too. It is not particularly democratic to tread the path of making these kinds of exceptions. Plus, it seems to wind up bigots such as those leaving comments to the article above…
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aziz
to be honest i dont entirely understand why there are Catholic bishops in the House of Lords after all. I thought that was the whole point of having an Anglican church?
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thabet
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SidwellFriends
That’s funny, I thought you had already proven once and for all that he not an islamophobe:
http://talkislam.info/2010/04/11/richard-dawkins-wants-to-arrest-the-pope/
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thabet
Agreed. But I don’t think he holds a special animus against ‘Muslims’. You can be sure he has as much hatred against Catholics (not in the news enough) or religious Jews (too small a group in the UK).
I think he is a stupid man when not working in his own domain.
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aziz
A long, difficult essay and supplemental videos from the BBC archives, about the evolution of the liberal humanitarian interventionist movement. This is a must read and it is something I am trying to digest and understand – it will definitely modulate my own position in some way, though I am as yet uncertain how.
Of all my tab-dumping links today, this is the one you really need to read.
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Matthew
Michael Berube’s book, The Left at War, is good.
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thabet
It is also worth spending time reading through Curtis’ posts on Afghanistan.
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aziz
these are amazing.
who is that author at LRB who also has been writing great stuff on Afghanistan for years?
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buzz
Sunday, March 6, 2011
Andrew Breitbart’s, Righteous Indignation: Excuse Me While I Save the World!
And from Andrew at Big Government:
I can think of no better way to upset the lefties in your life – and please the inner you – than pre-ordering my forthcoming coming-of-rage® book, Righteous Indignation: Excuse Me While I Save the World. Learn how I went from left to right, then decided to take on the world and become an unexpected culture warrior.
Available for pre-order, at Amazon.
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thabet
Michael Nazir-Ali deliberately muddies the waters in his response to Sayeeda Warsi’s comments on Islamophobia:
‘That is why we must distinguish between those Muslims who want to live peacefully with their non-Muslim neighbours and those who wish to introduce Shari’a into this country, restrict freedom of speech and confine women to their homes, not to speak of introducing draconian punishments such as death for blasphemy recently awarded to a poor Christian woman in Pakistan.
‘If relations are to improve between Muslims and other people in the world, these are the kind of issues that must be tackled.’
What does Pakistan’s blasphemy law have to do with bigotry towards Muslims in the UK? Surely, given his connections to the country, he must know that attacks against Christians in Pakistan are sometimes ‘justified’ on the basis that British and American warmongers are self-proclaimed Christians.
Giles Fraser adds something more sensible:
This is also why the growing idea that there is in this country such a thing as Christianophobia – an equivalent to Islamophobia – is such total nonsense. Following Warsi’s comments, the usual suspects of the Christian right have waded in with another rendition of “what about us?” What about those nice Christian B&B owners who have just been fined for sticking to their sincerely held beliefs about gay couples not sharing a bed under their roof? But the power relations here are altogether different. With bishops in the House of Lords by right, with the monarch being head of the Church of England, with the long history of Christianity shaping our values and culture, Christians are not a persecuted minority, however much they may feel misunderstood.
Being a good Anglican liberal, Fraser though still shares the same blind spot other liberals do: sometimes, may be most of the time, the line between ‘believer’ and ‘belief’ is fuzzy and not as clear cut as liberals presume it to be.
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thabet
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thabet
The Torygraph forgets all about ‘British Law’ it is keen for minorities to remember:
We have bishops in our upper chamber!
We have a state church!
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thabet
This is a debating point in Germany today:
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Lawrence of Arabia
I love how “Judeo-Christian” has become a mask behind which hides das Christentums dark past and in which continues to lurk so much dark power.
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Shams al-Nahar
it is political xianity– puritans with flag pins…its the same in the USA.
state religion.
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Matt
I think it is natural for people to feel this way, for reasons that modern politically-correct thought tends to neglect. It is still an open question whether true pluralism and truly egalitarian democracy can sustainably coexist. Egalitarian democracy raises the stakes on culture. Real pluralism is a recent experiment even in the United States.
We should not forget that the historical pluralism in Muslim lands was not egalitarian or democratic. This does not mean that it was not a good system– but it was what it was. Different groups had different rights and responsibilities. There was no free practice of religion in the modern liberal sense.
In the same way, all of the European states were born in circumstances much less culturally liberal than those that prevail there today. Pluralism in this situation is new and untested. Or, we could say, it is being tested.
So while I think it would be better for people if they were more open-minded (i.e. not bigoted), I also think it is natural for them to feel this way. Regardless of how anyone feels, there are big changes afoot in the world. Only God knows the future.
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Shams al-Nahar
But America does not have real pluralism. The elite semi-secular judiciary is the brake on the tyranny of the judeochristian majority.
“pluralism” in america is a headfake.
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thabet are discussing. 
Hitch are discussing. 
SidwellFriends are discussing. 
Shams al-Nahar, 
Matt, and 
aziz 8:25 am on April 20, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply
I think the question of whether or not to engage in intervention is a good debate we need to have (every time the question arises). But I find the taxpayer-dollar angle to be a red herring. Let’s be honest and admit that no one gives a crap about taxpayers’ expenses, aside from Ron Paul.
Anyway, the cost of the Libyan intervention was barely one Instagram’s worth!
thabet 10:53 am on April 20, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply
Err, I don’t see anyone having this ‘debate’ now. They’ve all moved onto Syria.
thabet 10:54 am on April 20, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply
“Let’s be honest and admit that no one gives a crap about taxpayers’ expenses”
No, not really. Not at a time when shrill voices tell us we must curb public spending for the greater good because we can’t afford it any more.
aziz 7:15 am on April 21, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply
Domestically speaking, here right now we seem to be winning the debate. The attempted murder of Medicare and Social Security has been thwarted, though vigilance is still required. Medicaid is still vulnerable since by design it’s half funded from the states, and so conservative legislatures can do more damage (example: Texas).
I dont know enough about teh situation in the UK, frankly. I do know that if we had a VAT like you folks did, we’d have no problem funding our social programs at all.