Ramadan is the month of Jihad. Also, math, and They Might Be Giants.
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aziz
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aziz
Why is the New York Times (@nytimes) abusing the term Jihad? I take issue on Twitter.
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aziz
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abunoor
Major profile on my teacher Shaykh Yasir Qadhi is now on the web, written by NYTimes Pulitzer Prize winner Andrea Elliott. I haven’t read it yet, but I was one of the people she interviewed for the piece in the “months she spent in the insular world of young American Salafis” (her description).
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/20/magazine/mag-20Salafis-t.html?_r=2
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PrettyPinkPonies
I’ve no love for Yasir Qadhi based on his views on Shi’a Islam. He actually refers to us as “raafidi”.
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abunoor
I think your understanding of his views may be outdated, which is not to say that he agrees with Shi’ism. I have taken an intensive class on Shi’ism with him in the last couple of years and, again without agreeing with Shi’i theology, he spent a good deal of the time in the class arguing against name calling and seriously asking a hostile audience to try to at least understand the Shi’a perspective and not to simply launch attacks based on exaggerations, misconceptions, or attributing the extreme beliefs of a few to the large majority of Shi’a.
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PrettyPinkPonies
I’ve never taken a course, only seen his videos on the Shi’a. I was less than pleased with the presentation, which made us look like crazy people who all think the Qur’an was edited and that the real one is the “Fatima Qur’an”. I’m no Twelver, but even I know that’s considered heresy even among the fringe/extremist Twelver groups.
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abunoor
And this is why I am telling you explicitly that this is not what he teaches currently.
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PrettyPinkPonies
Ah, I see. Well, that’s cheering news.
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bk
It seems he came around. Rather inspiringly, meaning, he studied and studied and finally came to the conclusion that all man-made tradition and theology is suspect and God alone knows the truth.
Only the Qur’an is 100% trust worthy.
Doesn’t take a genius but still, few finally come to that conclusion, Unfortunately, what we see is that the more someone studies, the more they become invested in a particular view.
But Qadhi impressed Griffel as “profoundly intelligent” and willing to engage in critical thinking. At Medina, Qadhi’s studies revolved around the search for an absolute religious truth. At Yale, the line of inquiry was markedly different. In Qadhi’s first class with Griffel in the fall of 2005, the subject was a 12th-century Sufi jurist. “You, Yasir, probably know more about this guy,” Griffel said. “But we’re going to study how to study him.” Qadhi was struck by this analytical approach. “The question is more historical in nature — it’s about where did this idea come from, how did it affect later ideas,” Qadhi said.
For Qadhi, the Koran remained the unequivocal word of God. But he began to think more critically about the “man-made” canon that informed Islamic theology. So much of Qadhi’s intransigence — especially toward other Muslim sects — was based on the view that his tradition was divinely ordained. He came to see Salafiya as yet another “human development” that was handed down over generations and therefore subject to imperfection. “I realized that, in many issues, only God knows the ultimate truth,” he says.
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aziz
I take him at his word, but I think that the damage done from his earlier views will outlast the influence of his rethinking.
Also, I guess I disagree that canon is man-made. This is the essence of takfirism. We have to be unafraid to assert our belief in Truth, and reconcile it with others’. Saying everyone is wrong, including yourself, is a kind of abdication.
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
It is a misunderstanding (by either the reader or the author of the piece) to think that Shaykh Yasir does not accept any canon or only accepts the Qur’an. Shaykh Yasir not only accepts the Sunni canon of authentic hadith completely but he also accepts that the understanding of the early Muslims, especially the companions of the Prophet (saw) is especially privileged and binding.
I would be interested to hear what you think was the “damage” done by Shaykh Yasir’s earlier views Aziz. He is certainly been much more influential to a much wider group of people in the last few years than he was in his earlier years, and the majority of those who admired him back then have accepted his evolution, with a minority either being confused or rejecting his new outlook.
Allah knows best.
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aziz
the damage is simply the entrenchment of anti-Shi’a viewpoints among a subset of american muslims. He promoted tose ideas and taught them; not all of his students would have been exposed to his subsequent (and clearly, intellectually honest) change of mind.
For example, user Julaybib at SunniForum seems to still hold negative views of Shi’a, at least in 2008 on this thread.
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?33656-Hii…Agnostic-gt-Islam-gt-Sunni-v-Shia…./page4
Meanwhile, Yasir Qadhi’s lectures on the Mahdi remain on YouTube with hundreds of thousands of views, and there seems to be no followup video series from him to refute his earlier arguments. The start of this video (#9) is particularly offensive.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZjEdX7-iwA&feature=player_embedded#at=20]
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aziz
I agree bk. Its inspiring, alhamdoillah
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
Aziz, I do not claim there was no “damage” in the sense that his previous views had some influence, but I am just saying that he is more influential now so on net his current views will have more influence.
And although he has certainly moderated his views and especially his tone, no doubt both Shaykh Yasir Qadhi and myself still hold views that you disagree with or that you probably find offensive. We have deep disagreements about things that matter.
I find you link to be bizarre, though. Am I missing what connection “Julaybib” has to Shaykh Yasir. For your information, perhaps all Sunnis look the same to you but SunniForum would not be a place for people influenced by Shaykh Yasir Qadhi,
In any event
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aziz
You asked what damage I was referring to, I was just giving you examples. Yasir Qadhi is quoited extensively by many at Sunni Forums as well as other websites with a heavy participation by american salafis.
Of course we have deep disagreements about important things. Those things do matter, but I don’t agree that eth disagreements themselves matter as much. I dont actually find anything you or other Sunnis believe to be offensive as far as our fiqh goes. What would be offensive would be, you finding MY beliefs offensive. Or vice versa.
We have as much obligation to disagree with each other as we do to respect each other.
My only complaint about Yasir Qadhi’s legacy is the way it delegitimized other schools of thought, instead of accepting that other muslims may have disagreements. He has changed his mind and his tune, but the body of work remains out there and unless Qadhi makes an effort to counter it (ie, siomething I could link to in that thread at SunniForum refuting Julaybib’s invocation of Qadhi’s earlier sermon, as an example), then he will probably always have his mroe radical views attributed to him, no matter how much he changes his mind or views from here on out.
And thats a shame, because I really like what he has to say, and it would be a tragedy if his words were dismissed out of hand, as they deserved to be when he was more extremist. The past Qadhi is still eclipsing the present one, absent any action.
I agree he is more influential in some circles now, but the article points out how his moderate tone is alienating the very followers who responded most to his earlier radicalism.
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Sid
Serioulsy, another sh**ty article from the Times on Islam? I couldn’t get past the fact that AlMaghrib allegedly teaches “Salafi” theology and his Macbook was an “Islamic” apple green? (The “Islamic” green is really much more forest than apple) Really, what the f**k? Someone tell me how the other 10(!?!) pages are.
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PrettyPinkPonies
Yeah I know, right? It was not really worth 10 pages; I mean there’s meat there but why it had to be ten pages was inexplicable.
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hakim
ASAWR
yeah, on page 7: <>
Really? Which Sufi order? Shadhili? Qadiri? Bektashi? What about the other ones?Anyway, i think it is good to see some discussion of diversity of opinion among American Muslims highlighted in the MSM. As the article pointed out, there are still terrorism analysts in the gubmint who don’t know the difference.
As for “Salafiya”, one of the things i found interesting about my time on MWU was that the Progressives also use some Salafi methodology in defending their positions. IIRC Tariq Ramadan mentioned that fact in his Western Muslims book.
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hakim
doh! missing quote (didn’t there used to be a quote-box thingy on this reply panel?) from p7:
“The following year, Qadhi further pushed the limits, making a pact of ‘mutual respect and cooperation’ with American clerics of the Sufi order, Salafiya’s longtime enemy. “-
PrettyPinkPonies
Some MWUers were Salafist. We weren’t of a single mind by any stretch of the imagination.
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bk
I didn’t know Popeyes was hilal.
Short beards and capri pants. Sounds like Greece.
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PrettyPinkPonies
Those guys in Boston make me actively angry. They have the highwaters and khuff on and there’s like 2 feet of snow. If the Prophet lived in Boston, he would have worn WARM CLOTHING. It’s blind mimicry.
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bk
Welcome ot wonders of orthodox religion.
Does every child have the same exact relationship with his/her parents? Or does each child create a unique relationship based on their own personality and identity?Somehow, with God, the most personal relationship, we all have to follow the leader…exactly.
It is kind of absurd.
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bingregory
Yeah that was a tantalizing snippet. Abunoor, any idea which tariqat is being referenced here?
Also, who was the convert Imam from Colorado who impressed the young Shaykh Yasir?
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
I think it was written in a confusing way, it was not with any particular tariqa, but what the author is referring to is the “Pledge of Mutual Respect and Cooperation between Sunni Muslim Scholars, Organizations and Students of Sacred Knowledge.” This is signed by many of the most prominent da’ees and teachers in the West. You can read it here: http://muslimmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/pledge-of-mutual-respect-and-cooperation-between-sunni-muslim-scholars-and-organizations-2.pdf Among those who signed are many identified with sufism, but it does not identify them by tariqa.
The convert imam from Colorado referred to is Shaykh Jamaal Zarabozo hafithuAllah.
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bingregory
Thanks for that, Abu Noor.
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aziz
no threadjack intended, but there’s also a profile on Suhaib Webb now:
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE72J3LH20110320?feedType=RSS&ca=rdt
pretty short but glad to see American imams getting positive press and profile.
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aziz
count this as a positive result of the @park51 debate: non-muslims exploring the Qur’an:
The Koran’s exhortations to jihad in the military sense are sometimes brutal in tone but are so hedged by qualifiers that Muhammad clearly doesn’t espouse perpetual war against unbelievers, and is open to peace with them. (Here, for example, is my exegesis of the “sword verse,” the most famous jihadist passage in the Koran.) The formal doctrine of military jihad — which isn’t found in the Koran, and evolved only after Muhammad’s death — does seem to have initially been about endless conquest, but was then subject to so much amendment and re-interpretation as to render it compatible with world peace. Meanwhile, in the hadith — the non-Koranic sayings of the Prophet — the tradition arose that Muhammad had called holy war the “lesser jihad” and said that the “greater jihad” was the struggle against animal impulses within each Muslim’s soul.
this is a argument made often by muslim voices, but it’s refreshing to see exegesis from an outsider along these lines. Obviously the outsider will say we have to “ignore” the “bad parts” whereas we as believers must go through more sophisticated processes, but we can’t expect an outsider to adhere to our beliefs when approaching the texts.
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thabet
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
I saw this movie at ISNA.
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Willow
Is it any good?
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
It was very interesting to me, although others experience may vary.
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Null
Are you the “radical Irish Muslim convert”?
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Dan
Khalid Kelly is the same nutcase that was part of al-Muhajiroun in the UK.
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thabet
Yep. I thought I had seen him before.
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
“Khalid to me was this amazing enigma and paradox. He was this white Irish guy who was a Muslim and he was one of the most articulate spokesmen for his cause. And he loved the camera,” Marshall said. “I definitely feel that Khalid had this nihilism about him. Even though Khalid’s not really a threat, he’d like to think of himself as one. All his talk is focused on this battle that would only lead to his own destruction . . . But also, I think that Khalid loves life too much. He’s not the suicidal prototype. I think he can find happiness. I think that Khalid wants to be happy.”
Actually , this was the most fascinating part of the film for me. You could tell that the filmmaker really kinda liked Khalid Kelly and he was trying to communicate a sympathetic portrait of him. Kelly, of course, for the most part, wanted to use the film to get out his message and he tried to stay “on message,” and obviously when he’s doing nothing but spouting the AlMuhajiroun line its hard to relate to him as a person. But the filmmaker spends enough time with him and tells the story in such a way that at least I really did feel an affection for him, although I wished that he would grow a little past the stage he was at…I don’t mean that to sound condescending but it is what it is that’s my take more so than just dismissing him as a nutcase or evil.
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
Null, you’re not the first person to wonder that. But no, I am just a “radical Irish(-American) Muslim convert,” not the one in the film.
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Null
How many of you guys are there?!
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shams
legion.
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thabet
An interesting account of how the Taliban are likely to treat ‘collateral damage’:
I wondered how the leaders who take pride in modeling themselves after the jihadi archetype of warrior by day and scholar by night, justified killing innocents. And there it was: killing the people in the course of war was “mubah“—morally neutral. The declaration made collateral damage, shariah-compliant.
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abunoor
Moazzam Begg: Jihad and Terrorism — A War of the Words
Although jihad does seek to terrify those who are engaged in oppression, abuse and violation of the sanctity of Muslims (and those under their protection), ordinary, decent human beings should not have to fear it, even when their own governments have committed crimes in their names. The purpose of jihad is to protect – not oppress. Being just to the enemy might be the hardest jihad of the nafs but it is still incumbent upon Muslims. This notion couldn’t be clearer than in the Quranic verse: O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah as just witnesses and let not the enmity and hatred of others make you avoid justice. Be just: that is nearer to piety, and fear Allah.
In conclusion, jihad is an inseparable component of Islam which embodies the very highest principles of faith, morality and rules of wartime engagement. It is the belief of Muslims that ‘jihad is an ‘ibaadah (act of worship) that will continue until the Final Day.’ But as it is waged, in all its forms, Muslims must neither allow their oppressors to overcome them nor to become their teachers in the process. In doing so, the concept of jihad in Islam can be reclaimed once again by the Muslims.
و الحمد لله رب العالمين
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Admin
jihad seeks to terrify? wtf.
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abunoor
وَأَعِدُّواْ لَهُم مَّا اسْتَطَعْتُم مِّن قُوَّةٍ وَمِن رِّبَاطِ الْخَيْلِ تُرْهِبُونَ بِهِ عَدْوَّ اللّهِ وَعَدُوَّكُمْ وَآخَرِينَ مِن دُونِهِمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَهُمُ اللّهُ يَعْلَمُهُمْ وَمَا تُنفِقُواْ مِن شَيْءٍ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ يُوَفَّ إِلَيْكُمْ وَأَنتُمْ لاَ تُظْلَمُونَ
“And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged.”
Qur’an 8:60
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abunoor
Alternative translations for “turhiboona” could be: “terrify; dismay; threaten; strike terror into the hearts; frighten; spread awe into the hearts: but it comes from the same word used in Arabic for terrorism today — irhab….and indeed as Moazzam Begg points out in jihad one is commanded to strike fear into the hearts of the oppressors. What did you think the enemies were not supposed to be afraid of the Muslims during physical fighting?
The whole point of Begg’s piece however is that innocent people, even innocent citizens of oppressive nations, should not have anything to fear from jihad and if they do then it is not truly jihad.
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Willow
I thought that was a very sensible way to put it.
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aziz
thank you! I learned something.
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Pretty Pink Unicorns
I like the Google translate form:
Prepare for them what you can of power, including steeds of war you terrify the enemy of God and your enemy and others besides whom you know not what God teaches you spend nothing in the way of Allah fulfilled you and you do not unjustly.
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Kalon
Not Muslim but this concept of love bravery and sacrifice should be the way everyone lives. Much respect for the enlightenment.
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AA
Don’t know about the source website (Kashmir Watch), but content/news seems interesting.
A Turkish university is holding next week an important international Islamic scholars get-together to re-visit the seven centuries back Ibne Tamiyyah interpretation (fatwa/edict) of jihad in Islam. The decreed was given by Ibne Tamiyyah in Mardin seven centuries ago. That will be analyzed in the same city by an expert group of Islamic scholars drawn from Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Pakistan, Sudan and from Western countries.
It is for the first time in modern history that an expert review of jihad is being carried out by Islamic scholars of international fame. “More than 20 authoritative scholars will discuss why “jihad,” or “holy war” should be understood in a more peaceful perspective”, Daily Hurriyet says.
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
For those interested, there is already a book in english by Yahya Michot examining some of the fatawah of Ibn Taymiyyah regarding Mardin and examining why both westerners and some violent Islamists have in his view either greatly misunderstood or are deliberately mischaracterizing the thought and writing of Ibn Taymiyyah rahimuAllah.
There’s a good short review of the book here. (although I come from a different perspective than the author of the review)
A closer examination of Ibn Taymiyyah’s vast corpus of writing demonstrates, argues Michot, he was in favour of resisting foreign invaders but completely rejected internal rebellion and insurgency. So, far from being a champion of religious radicalism, he was a sophisticated and pragmatic Islamic scholar and thinker, argues Michot. If this is true, why is he so readily misunderstood and misinterpreted – both by the Western scholars as well as the Islamists?
Michot, who is a lecturer at Oxford University and prominent authority on Ibn Taymiyyah, argues both the Western scholars and the Islamists have advertently or inadvertently emphasised his political thought at the expense of his moral and ethical teachings. This has led to the increasing politicisation of his complex and sophisticated writings on Islamic moral, ethical and legal thought. This raises an interesting question, namely, were there two different Ibn Taymiyyahs, an “Islamic reactionary and jihadist” or Islamic thinker and pragmatist?
Michot has no doubt that he was a pragmatist who carefully examined the ideals and realities of his time before he authorised military action or issued a legal decree to the contrary. To him, Ibn Taymiyyah was a multi-dimensional Islamic scholar and thinker, whose writing needs to be studied and explored in their totality if one is to understand and appreciate them fullyYahya Michot is now at the Hartford Seminary.
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Willow
emphasised his political thought at the expense of his moral and ethical teachings
I think this is probably true of modern Islamic thought in general as well. Islam as an ethical system has been almost completely overlooked in favor of Islam as a set of amoral legalisms dealing exclusively with material life. Being a traditionalist I am tempted to blame the rationalists (both conservative and liberal), but that is no doubt my own bias.
Either way, I’ve long been surprised that Ibn Taymiyyah became the poster child for radicalism, given some of the very thoughtful things he wrote.-
shams
Either way, I’ve long been surprised that Ibn Taymiyyah became the poster child for radicalism
No….Taymiyyah is not the posterchild for radicalism…he is the posterchild for fundamentalism. Taymiyyah was highly orthodox and his ideology appeals greatly to islamic fundamantalists and millenialists. My beloved Ghazali was a heretic and….a liberal I guess…at least a subversive. He was accused by Taymiyyah of being “intellectually promiscuous”.
Like cognitive anthropologist Pascal Boyer says in Religion Explained, fundamentalism represents an attempted return to a time in the past of ideological purity and orthodoxy….for some reason this return to orthodoxy is linked to violence…perhaps it correlates with lower IQ and g ….or with low education/low information individuals.
We see this in America with the fundamentalist christians and conservatives that make up the KKK or the Tea Party Patriots……constant chatter about guns and violence, and taking back THEIR country….to the 1800s perhaps.
Who can say?-
Pretty Pink Unicorns
Fundamentalism is annoying because it premises a single image of the past predicated on a writer’s critically ahistorical vision of events. Don’t know, don’t want to know.
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abunoor
shams,
I don’t know if you are referring only to Ibn Taymiyyah as he may be seen by modern “fundamentalists” or to his actual thought. If you are attempting to his actual thought, you are just wrong. To claim ibn Taymiyyah appeals to low iq people is just silly.
True, Ibn Taymiyyah does appeal to many orthodox Muslims in our times, but he also appealed to a modernist intellectual like Fazlur Rahman, or contemporary academics like Abdul-Hakim Jackson or the aforementioned Yahya Michot.
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thabet
IT deserves a lot of more credit than just being some sort of grandfather to ‘fundamentalism’.
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shams
Of course not, Abu.
I am referring to how Ibn Taymiyyah is percieved by fundamantalists, not to his actual jurisprudence and scholarship.
But certainly even islamic scholars can understand that Taymiyyah represented conservative orthodoxy and the status quo in al-Islam . al-Ghazali was an agent of change….a liberal if you like.
Fundamantalism is not always violent…..consider the Amish.
However, fear of change and fear of the new and different contributes to violence and agression among many fundamentalists and conservatives.
Look at “conservative” Americans throwing bricks and buying guns and threatening secession and taking back “their” country.
For example, Bart Stupak recieved a death threat last nite that probably didnt didnt come from a liberal.
I object to Willow’s characterization of fundamentalists and millenialists as radical, and of Ibn Taymiyyah as “the posterchild for radicalism.” Liberal and progressive ideology can be radical also….consider the Weathermen. -
abunoor
I consider myself to be orthodox and radical (whole nother discussion)…many people consider Ghazali to be the epitome of orthodoxy, of course that can easily be argued, and the same is true for Ibn Taymiyyah…all of these discussions require a much deeper level of knowledge and thinking than the amazingly superficial cardboard images of these past thinkers that are in the current popular Muslim imagination. Even if one makes the case that Ghazali or Ibn Taymiyyah were creative and bold thinkers (although ones that tried to stay true to their understanding of “orthodoxy” — meaning true to the sacred sources) then obviously that creates a question of what “following them” means in our time does it mean accepting their opinions, trying to follow their methodology or just being bold and creative?
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shams
Abu, this is very true.
And you and I could have such a discussion….but who reads the words of the great islamic scholars these days?
I can defend my shayyk Imam Ghazali as a synthesist through orthodoxy. Such was his genius.
But I think you can acknowledge that Taymiyyah was conservative, as I understand the meaning of the word.
Thus the appeal to people who feel disenfranchised by cultural evolution…people who wish to “take their culture back” and return to the status quo, who value the old ways over adaptation.
What the fundamentalists don’t understand (in one example) is that Tayymiyyah’s thought was adaptive to the problem of the encroachment of other cultures on al-Islam at the time and doesnt necessarily translate to modern times.Perhaps Abu and I could someday recreate some of the Epic debates between Tayymiyyah and Ghazali….alas, I probably have not studied enough for that yet.
Besides theres that whole whitegrrl thing….I mean …..reverting to Islam means I’m crazy, right?
lawl.
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thabet
I consider myself to be orthodox and radical (whole nother discussion)
That would make for an interesting post, Abu Noor.
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shams
indeed…..let’s rumble, Abu.
I’ll kick it off…..doubt vs. faith? Therefore, there is no salvation except in independence of thought.
Forget all you have heard and clutch what you see
At sunrise what use is Saturn to thee?
If writing these words yields no other outcome save to make you doubt your your inherited beliefs,
compelling you to inquire, then it was worth it– leave alone profitting you.
Doubt transports you to the truth.
Who does not doubt fails to inquire.
Who does not inquire fails to gain insight.
Without insight you remain blind and perplexed.
So we seek Allah’s protection from such an outcome.
–Abu Hamid al-Ghazali, Mizan al-amal (Balance of Deeds)
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thabet
I’ve met and spoken to Yahya Michot. He has some interesting views on Ibn Taymiyya, and Islamism.
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johnpi
‘Jihadi culture’ on the rise in Pakistan.
Pakistani writer and defence analyst Dr Ayesha Siddiqa writes: “Madrassas nurturing armies of young Islamic militants ready to embrace martyrdom have been on the rise for years in the Punjab. In fact, South Punjab has become the hub of jihadism. Yet, somehow, there are still many people in Pakistan who refuse to acknowledge this threat.”
Religious groups promoting jihad have very organised system of recruiting and training young people to advance the cause of Islam. Poverty stricken areas with economic deprivation are fertile ground to spread extremist views. Young children are recruited from madrassas and are looked after so well that their own living style looks much inferior.
….The Jihadi outfits which are still actively recruiting and training people are: Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP), Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LeJ), Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) and Lashkar-e-Tayyaba (LeT).
Pakistan may not be a good place to send your kid for religious education right now.
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johnpi
Yet, somehow, there are still many people in Pakistan who refuse to acknowledge this threat.
The theme of cowardly inability to face the truth raises its head again.
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johnpi
A Pakistani court has rejected an asylum plea for the five arrested youths from Virginia.
A Pakistani court on Friday dismissed a petition seeking asylum in the name of ‘holy war’ for five American Muslim youths recently arrested in the country for allegedly planning terror attacks, saying that it was not the duty of the judiciary to define ‘jihad’.
Generally, I’m skeptical of media sensationalism, but assuming this court action has their assent, these guys are sounding quite radicalized and intent on violence.
Also, I’m adding the ‘tag’ Virginia 5,’ because that’s how the US media is generally referring to them now.
aziz is discussing. 
abunoor, 
shams, 
Null, 
Kalon, 
Pretty Pink Unicorns, and 3 others are discussing. 
thabet, 
johnpi is discussing. 
Haroon Moghul takes up the cause at Religion Dispatches: http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/haroonmoghul/4955/jihad_chai_latte/