Democracy, Jewishness, Greater Israel: pick two.
It is interesting to see how the binational state idea is picking up steam again, among the remnants of the Israeli left.
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aziz
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aziz
Thinly-veiled propaganda for Israel at @techcrunch today, surprisingly. Not teh venue I’d have expected to see this.
I left the following comment in the thread, addressed to the author:
Israel has “total” freedom of speech? Then why is it now illegal to speak in support of the Boycott movement?
http://www.forward.com/articles/139822/
Also, where was the freedom of the press in discussing the case of Anat Kam?
Also, in 2009 Israel’s ranking for freedom of the press (by Reporters without Borders) fell 47 spots to 67 out of 175, thanks to Gaza war censorship by the government.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel-ranks-low-for-freedom-of-press-after-gaza-war-media-ban-1.5765
Look, I value nationalism and pride. But propaganda like this undermines the valid reasons to applaud the demonstrators. In a way, you have discredited them.
Celebrate the courage of your fellow Israelis in standing up for social justice. But scoring cheap points against Arabs and the UK? Disgraceful. Face it, friend, since the Arab youth and protestors live under autocracies, they have shown a lot more courage in their demonstrations than your compatriots – because they really are putting their lives on the line, for freedom.
Perhaps you should be praising them and articulating a message of solidarity for your Arab brothers instead of taking cheap shots.
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aziz
I found this article at AJE, about debunking arguments againstM the right of return, informative and persuasive.
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thabet
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thabet
It’s April Fool’s Day:
Israel is an example of that today: technology and not territory are the drivers of wealth. We have shown that with a small piece of land, little water and no oil, it is possible to create a thriving economy and a sustainable democracy.
Israel welcomes the wind of change, and sees a window of opportunity. Democratic and science-based economies by nature desire peace. Israel does not want to be an island of affluence in an ocean of poverty. Improvements in our neighbours’ lives mean improvements to the neighbourhood in which we live.
Israelis understand that this is no less true of the Palestinians. That is why successive Israeli governments have given their full support to the efforts of Palestinians in the West Bank to build their own economy, their own institutions, and their own security forces. Economic growth in the West Bank is now close to 10% annually. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians see the tangible fruit of this co-operation. Knowledge, freedom and peace are inseparable.
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aziz
Taking credit for Palestinian growth? Obscene, but not surprising.
10% growth is a meaningless number anyway. If I’m earning $1 a day and then I start earning $1.50, thats 50% growth right there. BFD.
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thabet
And some people expect us to take these criminals seriously and show them some ‘respect’:
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aziz
Hysterical fearmongering about Egypt by Mortimer Zuckerman in an oped for USA Today.
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aziz
“Jews should not rely on Pharoahs.” – Leon Wieselter
good article in TNR.
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aziz
an astonishing editorial in Ha’aretz. “the settlers have vanquished Israel”
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bk
Not astonishing.
Typical Gideon Levy piece.
He is the Ayaan Hirsi Ali of Israel.-
Matt
From what I understand though, he hates it when outsiders (outside Israel) cite his work. If he weren’t himself in Israel, he’d be writing quite different stuff.
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bk
I feel the same way. I like to hear Americans criticize America and hate to listen to outsiders do it. Criticism with investment and criticism with no investment in the target of criticism are worlds apart.
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Matt
Uh-oh, another Matt. That’s okay. From now on, you may know me as Maitham.
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bk
But God bless Ha’aretz for having the nuts to publish him.
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aziz
Israel has always had a braver press. The reason is because the Israeli lobby doesn’t operate there.
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Dean Esmay
It is rather striking how much less strident and much more diverse opinons are about Israel and the Palestinian question in general things are in Israel than they are in the US. I liken this to how the Irish Republican Army was viewed in Ireland vs. the United States. A powerful pro-IRA publicity campaign was active in the US for decades and raised tons of money for the IRA; meanwhile, plenty of Irish, including tons of the Irish Catholics than the IRA supposedly represented, had a much more diverse view of the IRA, ranging from outright support to outright hostility and all conceivable points in between.
It’s interesting just how much various pressure groups can influence the American press. And I think that problem is growing, not shrinking, with the increased corporatization of the news world. I once thought blogs held the key to undoing that problem, but now I think I was naive.
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aziz
don’t forget teh Citizens United case, either, which will only make things worse.
I have come around to the idea of requiring public funding for all elections. Raise the personal donation limit to $7500, outlaw all corporate donations, require all PACS to have fully transparent funding. Candidates can and shoudl only be allowed to raise money up to a cap, and will get matching funds. Everyone’s box on theior tax returns about donating $1 will be marked by default.
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Matthew
It’s not “the Israel lobby.” Whatever “the Israel lobby” actually is. Seriously! It changes from page to page in M&W’s work, and is just as hard to nail down everywhere else. A really useful book is Dan Fleshler’s “Transforming America’s Israel Lobby,” though unfortunately he glides over many of the problems with the ways others talk about Jewish political participation.
The reasons the Israeli press provide a greater diversity of views are that Israelis are (1) more familiar with the whole thing than most Americans, and (2) have a certain freedom with each other because they argue from within certain shared assumptions that outsiders don’t share. Also, (3) non-Israelis use their agenda to filter articles from the Israeli press for global consumption so that the Israeli press seems even more “diverse” than it is.
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aziz
I think that the Israel lobby is pretty well defined. I’ve been reading MJ Rosenberg’s email essays and he defines it pretty clearly – basically, AIPAC and teh satellite orgs like the ADL etc. But AIPAC is the main driver.
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Matthew
Well, it’s most certainly not well defined in the general discourse so that you could trust that a listener would understand exactly what you meant. As I said, the shape of the lobby changes on every page of M&W’s book. People from Noam Chomsky to Gershom Gorenberg have made that criticism. In order to avoid attributing the supposed power of the Israel lobby to an obviously antisemitic notion of Jewish power, many people follow their lead and also say it includes Christian evangelicals. And journalists. And sometimes even policy makers. By then it becomes absolutely peculiar to focus on Israel, yet most continue to (as a fortunately tiny number then blame Jews for US policy in Latin America).
On the other hand, if you stick with just AIPAC and the ADL, then I really don’t think you can explain their supposed power without exposing even more obvious problems. And that’s without getting to a whole host of other problems with how the term operates to make Jewish subordination in America invisible. Or how so many of the stories told about the lobby just don’t stand up.
Perhaps I should mention that while I agree with Rosenberg on many political aims, I can’t stand the way he argues for them. Sometimes I find him incredibly offensive. You know how sometimes Leftists use the word “Liberal” as a slur — that’s how I feel about him. But he did write the forward for the book I mention above.
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aziz
Bibi wants us all to cut Hosni some slack.
Israel called on the United States and a number of European countries over the weekend to curb their criticism of President Hosni Mubarak to preserve stability in the region.
Mubarak didn’t provide stability — he provided repression.
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Sid
Both Applebaum’s and Douthat’s op-ed’s are a stark reminder of how dumb we still are on the Middle East: crass platitudes, easy explanations, and Islamic bogeymen.
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Dean Esmay
What Bibi thinks privately and what he thinks publicly are probably different things, but in general his country has enjoyed peaceful and profitable relations with the Mubarak regime, and they would have to be worried what instability would bring. I’m all for said instability since I have no interest in maintaining the stability of regimes like this–so long as the free world embraces the right reformers, anyway.
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Sid are discussing. 
Matthew 7:43 pm on September 10, 2011 Permalink | Log in to Reply
You understand that many understand the demands made of Israel as “Security, Democracy, Jewishness: pick two.”
I agree with most of what Strenger says. I also support the Palestinian bid because I believe Palestinians deserve national self-determination, and I despise Netanyahu. But I hope after the declaration, negotiations will continue (with my hopes for their fruitfulness) as before. Because I believe the existence of Israel is just, and I’m opposed to attempts to define the Left in a way that effectively precludes such a belief.