LOL Fox: “Why does Obama hate Easter and love Ramadan” SUBTEXT HES A MUSLIM THATS WHY (via loonwatch)
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aziz
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aziz
One of my most controversial posts ever: Easter in Islam.
To any Christian folk here at TI, I sincerely hope you read the post in the spirit it was intended. Happy Easter.
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AA
“They Killed Him Not”: The Crucifixion in Shi‘a Isma‘ili Islam
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svend
Speaking of Easter, someone posted an intriguing if quite unorthodox defense of Easter based on some early (and rather outlying) Islamic sources.
http://akramsrazor.typepad.com/islam_america/2011/04/happy-easter.html#comments -
Abu Noor
I am as interested as anyone in getting lost in the details of these cross Abrahamic discussions. Indeed, I have participated in and even co-led many Jewish-Muslim text studies comparing the stories of different prophets mentioned in the Torah and the Qur’an. I really love it and I learn a lot.
Yet, I think one thing that we should constantly remind ourselves, especially when it comes to the Qur’an, is not to get lost in details mentioned in different tafaseer and lose sight of what is and what is not mentioned in the Qur’an. One thing, we can be sure of, if it is not mentioned in the Qur’an it is not essential to the lesson the Qur’an is trying to teach. This doesn’t mean there is not benefit possibly in some other details, but they are not esential to the message.
I think this is importan to frame all the other discussion, it is not meant at all to discount it. I recommend Todd Lawson’s book, The Crucifixion in the Qur’an: A study in the history of Muslim thought to those interested in the different ways Muslims have understood these ayat, but again I encourage everyone to continually ask, what did Allah choose to focus on and what is the message for us.
Allah knows best.
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aziz
I agree that the Quitr’an should begin the debate, but to argue that mentioning different tafseer somehow “loses sight” of the Qur’an itself is to misunderstand teh purpose of tafseer.
In fact, dismissing tafseer ion that basis is a form of tafseer itself – it’s fine if you want to disagree with someone, but you cant dismiss it out of hand.
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Abu Noor
Sorry the Lawson book is “The Crucifixion and the Qur’an”
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AA
Lawson is consistently quoted by the author in the article I linked above. I have read this book but it was not an easy read for me (I don’t have good enough background in Christianity).
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AA
I encourage everyone to continually ask, what did Allah choose to focus on and what is the message for us.
This is rather confusing. Hope you are not suggesting Allah chose to focus on something at one point in time and then left us wondering for the eternity on that specific point or points.
Life is a continuation, creation is a continuation, it is never a constant.
That’s my context.
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Abu Noor
Not sure if I understand your question AA, although I guess I see why my point could be confusing. I can’t say I understand what you mean by “life is a continuation, creation is a continuation, it is never a constant.”
My point is simply this, Allah said what he said about the crucifixion of Isa (as). The fact that Allah (swt) does not mention whether another person was crucified in Isa’s place or who that person was means that those questions, while not worthless, are not essential to the message Allah has for us.
I encourage people to study different tafaseer and even think there is great value for some people, although certainly not everyone to study what other traditions teach about certain events. When we gather all that data, though, my point is we should take our cues as to what is truly important about something and the lessons it has for us from what Allah (swt) chooses to draw our attention to in the Qur’an and then to what the Prophet (saw) choose to draw our attention to in any hadith that may explain the ayat.
Do you see what I am saying?
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AA
while not worthless, are not essential to the message Allah has for us.
I can agree with that. In terms of context, the Good Friday/Easter weekend is just an opportunity, and it doesn’t really mean that people are overemphasizing.
BTW, speaking of different tafaseer, let me plug in this book which is very handy.
An Anthology of Qur’anic Commentaries – Volume I: On the Nature of the Divine
http://iis.ac.uk/view_article.asp?ContentID=110177The good part about this book is that you’d get to read most of the Sunni scholars (majority) with Shi’as (minority) on the same topic, along with good introduction of historical personalities.
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Abu Noor
I own this book, and I second the recommendation…the paperback is available on Amazon and not that expensive
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Abu Noor
Aziz, you’ve completely misunderstood what I said. I suggest rereading my comment.
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aziz
maybe i just dont understand the way teh critique applies, then. Its a very general statement to make – what aspects of the fundamental of what teh QUr’an and Allah is focusing on, is being missed, in the links shared by AA and svend? do you have a specific ccritique?
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Abu Noor
My comment was not meant to be a critique of the views linked to by Svend or AA, just a contribution to the larger discussion.
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Abu Noor
Sorry if that was not clear.
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aziz
Few things I’ve written have attracted such hostility as my “Easter in Islam” essay last year. I admit that the title is provocative, but most of the muslim critics seemed to think I was accepting the Christian view in a bid to be “inclusive” and “tolerant”. In fact, as I replied in comments,
In the spirit of commonality I adopt the terminology but do not surrender our interpretation.
I frankly dont see where I have been “open minded” – if anything I am being quite conservative in stating explicitly the difference between Islam and Christianity on this matter.
Frankly, Easter is as good a time as any for muslims to honor the Prophet Jesus AS. But we should do so in knowledge of our own distinct beliefs.
Critics of the piece from the Christian side – such as most of the commentariat at Dean Esmay’s blog – were equally hostile, but more out of possessiveness. They thought I was trying to “Islamify” Easter and reacted with disgust at the icky islam all over their clean linen. (I ended up deleting the post because the last thing I wanted was to cause offense on their heoly day).
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aziz
oh, and abu noor – this is all your doing. you’ll make an irishman of me yet.
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
That’s awesome Aziz….I really love that poem. We should all aspire to be Irish on the Inside.
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
On your Easter post… I obviously don’t have a problem with pointing out the way in which Muslims see Jesus or the Christmas or Easter story. But I am one of those people that recoils at the notion of “celebrating” any Holidays other than Eid. It’s not just the Salafi in me, but it relates to my notion that it is beneficial for Muslims in America to see themselves as part of a counterculture.
Obviously there’s more to be said on that note, but I just want to leave that marker there in response to your post, perhaps it’s a theme I’ll pick up on later. It relates to my notion of an expression of Islam that is orthodox and radical.
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aziz
i guess like “doublethink” there’s a implied meaning in the word “celebrate” which distorts the more subtle message I am making. In a way I actually was making a very religious-supremacist argument – co-opting a false narrative to promote a true one. If thats not orthodoxy, I dont know what is.
MAybe I should use better words
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Willow
I dunno man. I could see an argument for Muslims celebrating Christmas in some fashion since Muslims and Christians pretty much agree about Jesus’s birth, but Easter? Precisely on the third day after a crucifixion you do not believe occurred you celebrate a resurrection you do not believe occurred? Seems to me you could do that any old day. To me this is needlessly insulting to Christians and meaningless in an Islamic context.
If you want an excuse for an Easter egg hunt, take up Shem i’Nessim.
It’s the Egyptian holiday on which the egg hunt is based. (Well, it’s the Egyptian holiday based on the ancient Egyptian holiday on which the egg hunt is based.) They still eat boiled dyed eggs in Egypt to celebrate. In fact, when I told my Egyptian relatives that western Christians do this on Easter, they were baffled. To them it’s pretty blatantly a guilty pleasure left over from the ye olde jahilayya days of Isis fertility cults.-
AA
I think there’s also a relationship of egg and Navroz festivities in Iran, or I could be mistaken.
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abunoor
Here’s an Easter Celebration for you, Aziz:
Easter, 1916 by William Butler Yeats
I have met them at close of day
Coming with vivid faces
From counter or desk among grey
Eighteenth-century houses.
I have passed with a nod of the head
Or polite meaningless words,
Or have lingered awhile and said
Polite meaningless words,
And thought before I had done
Of a mocking tale or a gibe
To please a companion
Around the fire at the club,
Being certain that they and I
But lived where motley is worn:
All changed, changed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born.
(More …) -
aziz
Easter in Islam – indeed, he has risen.
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
Aziz, It would seem that you write your beliefnet blog primarily for an audience of non-Muslims and I can understand having a different style but I think you go too far in the way you talk about things.
MaShaAllaah it is good to use days like Easter, Christmas, Passover, or whatever to take note of and examine the similarities and shared history between Judaism, Christianity and Islam. It is also important to discuss the major differences in interpretation and understanding among these faiths that are brought out by these holidays as well in a respectful way.
All of that I think you do a fine job of (although of course there is always room for discussion and disagreement about these deeply meaningful topics).
What I don’t understand is why you always have to go the extra step and say that Muslims should “celebrate” the other holidays or that no one can say the holidays are “un-Islamic.” True respect and understanding of other traditions does not require embracing them, and sometimes it’s more respectful in my view to understand that Christians or Jews have a different understanding of these events which they celebrate and in which we don’t share.
The Prophet (saw) never taught us to ‘celebrate’ Easter and Allaah (swt) sent him (as) to teach us how to observe our religion.
Anyways, just a different perspective to think about…I don’t think we’re that far apart it may be just a difference in tone that comes from personality differences.
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
And maybe you’ll disagree with this, but I also think the difference in approach could be characteristic of an immigrant mindset that is interested in fitting in and assimilating to society and the convert mindset that is interested in preserving clear distinctions and which has long ago made the leap away from the desire to “fit in” with the larger society completely.
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
Now that I think about it, forget the whole immigrant/convert thing…I think there’s something there but I don’t want to start a discussion about that. It’s more like the reform vs. orthodox difference among Jews. It’s a difference in balancing the importance of emphasizing the particularist vs. universalist aspects of a tradition. There are many factors involved in why people go a certain way on such questions of emphasis, including very much the context which may cause the same person to emphasize a different aspect at a particular time and place, with a particular audience.
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aziz
in a nutshell, I consistently argue that we should embrace the aspects of these traditions that are Islamic. We should, in effect, take ownership over those elements that are ours (while drawing a clear distinction between what we believe and what they believe).
No, the Prophet SAW did not explicitly mention “Easter” but given the emphasis on Mariam AS and Jesus AS in the Qur’an, it is pretty obvious that these figures are to be revered and respected by us. As such, when Christians set aside days for these important figures who are also important in Islam, it makes sense that we should also reflect on their value and meaning to us as muslims.
Im not really sure where you were going with the immigrant issue or the universalist issue either. as far as I am concerned Islam is universal and contains all previous religions within it, as the pure uncorrupted truth. So when occassions like Easter come along I find value in asserting that truth. In a sense, it is Dawah.
(incidentally, I am neither a convert nor an immigrant, though my parents did immigrate to the US from India).
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abunoor
(incidentally, I am neither a convert nor an immigrant, though my parents did immigrate to the US from India).
I’m talking about mentalities and archetypes not individuals. Obviously among any group of humans you will have great diversity in belief, practice, and attitude.
As such, when Christians set aside days for these important figures who are also important in Islam, it makes sense that we should also reflect on their value and meaning to us as muslims.
I try to do so even when Christians have not set a day aside for them!
No, the Prophet SAW did not explicitly mention “Easter” but given the emphasis on Mariam AS and Jesus AS in the Qur’an, it is pretty obvious that these figures are to be revered and respected by us.
And it’s equally obvious that one does not have to celebrate Christmas or Easter to revere or respect them.
I really don’t get how writing on a bus that Jesus and Moses are Prophets of Islam is some kind of aggressive, offensive da’wah but “claiming ownership” over Christian holidays while asserting a completely different meaning for them (the uncorrupted truth) is the way to go. Maybe you can explain the difference?
In any event, Aziz, please don’t get offended. It’s just a discussion, I’ve said from the beginning I don’t think we’re that far apart, but there is a different in approach that I find interesting to analyze a bit.
Peace.
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aziz
And it’s equally obvious that one does not have to celebrate Christmas or Easter to revere or respect them.
I didnt take offense – no worries. I think you’re taking undue exception to a word, “celebrate” and missing my point which is that the occassion of the Christian Easter is a convenient time for us to embrace our own understanding of Jesus AS (not Easter itself).
I celebrate Easter only insamuch as I revere Jesus. I dont go to a church and sing hymns. I guess I have no objection to letting my kids run around collecting eggs or whatever, but I dont make any effort in seeking that out (weve never done that). You seem to think I am arguing for a multicult religious Unitarianism.
I try to do so even when Christians have not set a day aside for them!
I am sure you try, and you probably succeed better than I. But frankly, most days I do not, frankly, give Jesus AS much thought (astaghfirullah). Hence, Easter is a good occasion to engage in some reflection on the prophet Isa and his signficance.
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Safia
Salaam Aziz,
Do you have an email address where I can contact you? I just had a question about something.
Thanks!
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plimfix
I’m married to a Christian — she’s not religious enough to bother with Easter, but she does a version of Christmas. Not me. My other half disappears off to her mother’s with the kids on Christmas day. It’s not that I’m averse to it. It’s just totally meaningless.
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hal786
Assalamualaikum
well we always have easter eggs!!lol , we’re only kids , we dont exactly celebrate but we should have more of a right to celebrate s.Isa a.s. ascending than the christians right???we can think of it that we’re celebratin that maybeive got more on this issue at twitter.com/hal786
on twitter one of the most talked about subjects at the time was about jesus, so i wrote what muslims thhink about jesus a.s/isa
that he’s still alive, never said hes son of god, ppl twisted his words, he taight about oneness of Allah/God, that he’ll return to this world to earth and then die finally but right now hes alive, he wasnt crucified, his return is one of the major signs of d.o.j and he’ll defeat the anit-christ/dajjal ,…tough time for muslims init..and that sooo many of the minor signs have happened, when Isa a.s. comes he’ll tell that he follows Islam he has same beliefs of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. so then Inshallah ppl will know the truth, e.g. christians it might be a shock that the one thing their whole lives are based upon is a lie. that Jesus is muslim he believes in Allah he knows hes a servant of God not son and his birth was a miracle subhanallah!
from hal786
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aziz
Hi Safia, sure drop me a line at apoonawa (dash) blog (at) yahoo.
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
Aziz,
Glad you weren’t offended…I still worry sometime that I don’t communicate tone well in my writing.
Yeah, I was gonna say other than “celebrate” and one other word I fully embrace your post…but I am still interested in why you are troubled by saying Jesus and Moses: Prophets of Islam on a bus, but claiming “ownership” over Jesus and Moses at Easter, Christmas or Passover is a good form of da’wah…because I think ICNA is trying to do exactly the same kind of da’wah that you are doing.
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aziz
I am not exactly doing dawah – i think a side benefit of what i am doing is a form of dawah, but thats not the explicit point. Also my blog is hardly a public entity in the same way that bus ads nationwide are.
in a ntshell, i am trying to assert what I believe, against a cultural mainstream. in so doing i am carving out space for the Islam that muslims themselves practice. ICNA wants to expand that space. I am defensive; they are offensive.
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
Aziz, a blog is a public space. Is it exactly the same as a bus? No, but it is not completely different either. (If someone asked you for permission to publish your blog post in a forum where it would get as many readers as a bus billboard, would you say, no, I meant this to be only for a limited audience?)
in a ntshell, i am trying to assert what I believe, against a cultural mainstream. in so doing i am carving out space for the Islam that muslims themselves practice. ICNA wants to expand that space. I am defensive; they are offensive
Aziz, this is EXACTLY what I was trying to get at when I talked about the immigrant vs. convert mindset (And I know you’re not an immigrant, believe me you’re more American than I am
) But there may be other different dynamics at work here as well. And believe me, although I can’t say I am against what you refer to as “aggressive da’wah, I don’t practice it myself — although I find it rather easy to put myself in situations where people will ask me about Islam) But with that in mind, why in the world do you see yourself as being in some kind of defensive posture against the cultural mainstream? As you stated, Islam is a universal truth and a message for all people, why in the world would you not want to expand the space for Islam and Muslims? (By the way, I don’t at all really buy that you don’t want to expand the space you engage in plenty of activities which seemed design to expand the space for Muslims and Islam)Anyways, I guess the reason I find this discussion fascinating because in practice I often find myself engaging in what you are referring to as a “defensive” posture (although that’s not really true, I actually try to combine elements of both in creative ways) and I am somewhat turned off by a lot of aggressive da’wah in practice although in theory I think it’s a must to do da’wah in ways that are effective.
I think my biggest problem with the way you’ve approached this issue is the way you see the bus billboards as aggressive da’wah. A billboard with a few word message and a number for people who are interested to call is a prime example of passive da’wah. I don’t think any marketing or sales expert would consider putting up some billboards as “aggressive” marketing.
In any event, thanks for your thoughts.
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ELI
ISNT AMAZING THAT RESPECT FOR EACH OTHER RELIGIONS MEANS GOD IS THE CONTRADICTION , CANT BELIEVE WHAT HE SAID BECAUSE IT IS SPOKEN EXTREMELY DIFFERENT FOR EACH RELIGION … SO IS JESUS LYING OR ISLAM LYING OR IS JUDAISM
LYING …. NO MATTER YOUR BELIEF ,U BELIEVE THAT JESUS WILL JUDGE ALL…
AS A CHRISTIAN IT IS NOT THAT JUST WAS CRUCIFIED , BUT OUR FOUNDATION IS ON HIS RESURRECTION .. WITHOUT IT OUR FAITH IS DEAD… YET U CLAIM ONE PROPHET TOLD THE TRUTH , WHILE THE BIBLE IS BASED ON PROVED HISTORY , ARCHEOLOGY, PROPHECY … IT IS LOGICAL TO EXAMINE AND BELIEF IN THE TRUTH IF YOU CAN SEE IT… LOVE THE TRUTH HATE THE LIE .. OVER THE 2000 YRS THE TRUTH WAS TOLD AND LIVES ON , GOD FORGIVES AND ASK FOR REPENTANCE THROUGH AND ONLY THROUGH THE LORD JESUS CHRIST ,BECAUSE
NO NEW FALSE RELIGION , AND MANY CAME ALONG AND DIED AND SOME ARE STILL ALIVE BECAUSE OF THEIR PROXIMITY TO TRUTH , BUT WILL EVENTUALLY DIE OFF OR REPENT AND ACCEPT THE TRUTH OF THE LIVING GOD , THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.. WHO WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO ACCEPT U THROUGH HIS FREE GRACE AND SALVATION
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Abu Noor, 
AA, 
AA, 
ELI, 
xwvdbeofj 9:32 am on January 12, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply
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