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  • johnpi 9:48 pm on March 1, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: covering,   

    Darkness begets dishonesty, study finds.

    Dim lights can make it seem as if no one is watching, triggering moral transgressions in many people, a new study suggests.

    Past research has shown that when people are concealed from view by others, say when they are wearing hoods, these individuals will be more likely to commit criminal acts and other bad behaviors.

    But what about times when we’re not actually anonymous – people can see us – yet we feel like we’re hidden? The researchers of the new study describe it as the adult version of hide-and-seek: Kids often believe no one can see them when they cover their eyes even though they are hiding in plain sight. Turns out, a dark room can have a similar psychological effect on adults.

    So does it follow that women who don’t cover are likely to be more honest and have fewer moral transgressions than those who do?

     
    • plimfix 12:39 am on March 2, 2010 Permalink | Log in to Reply

    • johnpi 8:25 am on March 2, 2010 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      Thabet:

      I contend that one of the reasons (though not the only reason) why we have a ‘poverty of science’ in Muslim countries is because ‘pure’ science is viewed as potentially subversive, as good science only recognises its own internal logic.

      and

      …this juxtaposition of a ’secular’ cirricula and a ‘religious’ education can have the danger of creating double-think: we need to start making spaces for our religious beliefs which are sheltered from the ever-growing space that science tries to occupy. This can create a sort of ‘intellectual fiedism’ (or a ‘fideistic phantasmagoria’ if you want — thanks to Eteraz for that fantastic phrase). A stronger version of this would be to give religious truth precedence over a scientific claim. In this case we need to ask (i) how far can our claims that our religion is compatible with science be held (which many Muslims do claim); and (ii) whether we want to continue learning this modern science, which could have both long- and short-term implications.

      Ignoring the implications, or ignoring discussing the implications, is bad for my iman, the kind of thing that at least has the appearance of credibly challenging orthodoxy, and which rattles around in my head and becomes a much bigger blockage than it should. The more I try to ignore something, the more power it seems to have over me…

      And of course this isn’t just a question for Muslims: Nuns who wear a habit and orthodox Jewish women cover too…

      The practice of wearing a habit comes from the idea that to avoid scandal or temptation they would wear clothes that avoid any display of human form. A coif (the large white starched linnen item worn by nuns across the chest) was to prevent the showing of the bustine.

      And overthrowing one reason to cover doesn’t undo any other reasons someone might choose to cover: “Clothes made the man…a religious habit derives from the same motivation: to publicly show membership in a certain group. “

    • abunoor 10:12 am on March 2, 2010 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      John,

      This is one of the more bizarrely silly posts I’ve read. I thought of engaging it to show why it is so silly, but that would be giving it too much credibility.

      • johnpi 1:25 pm on March 2, 2010 Permalink | Log in to Reply

        I knew this was smackdown material when I posted it, but it is important all the same. There are two questions I’m raising here, and I probably bouched this post by mixing them:

        1) The relationship of science and new information to the deen.

        2) How do you address information that comes to new converts that challenges Islamic practices or doctrine? When I was a new convert this is the kind of thing I would have a huge question that I wanted to engage with people of Islamic knowledge, but the question seemed so big and threatening and insulting in a way that I refrained from asking it. And as I said, the unasked question, the suppressed doubt weighs on the mind, and the lack of input and engagement causes it to loom large.

        A convert may have a question that is silly, that is bizarre, that is completely lacking in credibility, but that doesn’t mean the appropriate response is to attempt to ridicule it away. It satisifies you personally, but it doesn’t satisfy the convert or the seekers needs.

        Abu Noor, if you would like to recover me to orthodoxy, you should take the question seriously… think of this as a question at the dawah table. How do you respond?

        And Aziz, really, is that what you say to new or recent converts when they come to you with questions that seem silly, bizaare, etc: F$%ktard, F$%k off, etc.

        I’m beyond being called a ‘recent convert’ but I recall the experience of reading or taking in contrary or challenging information and then having no one to really process it with because the level of obvious disdain or hostility was so high – and how that lack of engagement caused something that might have otherwise been easily processed to take on distorted significance – a process I’m painfully repeating in this thread by making a bigger deal out of this than it merits, but I think there is value to the community and to dawah efforts to advocate not walling off questions from people who are otherwise trying to draw closer to the religion…

        • johnpi 1:36 pm on March 2, 2010 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          Willow, I think you’ve gotten at what I’m trying to illustrate better than the others: How the lack of engagement and context, the isolation of facts and assertions that do exist as being outside the realm of acceptable dialogue, can lead to the problems you describe.

        • Abu Noor Al-Irlandee 2:19 pm on March 2, 2010 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          John, I have to be honest I understand you to be a serious and sincere person but I find it hard to believe that this would be a sincere questioner: “I don’t get this hijab thing because it’s “scientifically proven” that people are more dishonest in the dark or when nobobdy knows them”

          And it is actually best not to engage people who seem to be insincere in their questions. Or if it someone like you who I perceive to be sincere about something but they have latched onto a bizarre distorted example it is easiest to simply show them how wrong they are about the example, but that is not going to do anything for whatever the bigger concern is.

          So, yes, I could tell you above what Aziz and Willow have already pointed out that far from making people “anonymous” wearing hijab at least in a non-Muslim country is more likely to make people watch you and remember you. Many of us who are “visibly Muslim” notice that it affects our behavior in that we know that people who associate however we act with Islam. Of course, most importantly if a person is sincerely covering out of taqwa due to the commandment of her Lord, then her hijab is a good indication that she is aware that Allah (swt) is always watching and this is more effective than knowing that people are watching in preventing vice or dishonesty.

          But of course none of that discussion would address the real problem, which is that someone who would latch onto that study and somehow think that it raises questions about hijab, has absolutely no confidence that the Qur’an and Sunnah are actually from God and that God’s guidance is the best guidance for the human. Discussing a specific fiqh ruling and trying to convince someone on grounds other than the sources of revelation of its truth will not remove such doubts from the one who has them. Of course you are right to note that simply dismissing the person or their concerns or treating them with disdain will not remove the doubts either.

          I understand that all people often benefit from someone just listening to their concerns, whatever they might be, and being sympathetic to them. In my experience most people don’t even care too much how you answer the question that they are “asking” nor are they likely to be “convinced” by your answer. The best you can hope is that they feel closer to you for having shared something with you and that you don’t say anything to explicitly turn them off.

          I worry however that in some cases sympathetic listening to certain complaints does reinforce bad, incorrect,or unhealthy habits of thinking. So I would be hesitant to engage your discussion as you tried to initiate it above just as I would be turned off if I saw some Muslim arguing, ‘this study proves that hijab is right’. It may seem to give some people comfort in the short run but in the long run it is a very superficial.

          I don’t know….I’m sure in person I could explain to you more what I’m getting at John but right now I’m worried how much of what I’m trying to say will be communicated here……

        • aziz 8:08 pm on March 2, 2010 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          And Aziz, really, is that what you say to new or recent converts when they come to you with questions that seem silly, bizaare, etc: F$%ktard, F$%k off, etc.

          Im not clear on what my response has to do with converts… my comment was that the research in the article you cited, which suggests that teh perception of anonymity increases unethical behavior, is analogous to the behavior of people online, as perfectly and brilliantly described by Penny Arcade.

          I am aghast that you could interpret my comment in any other way, and very confused as to what it has to do with conversion, but I do sincerely apologize for not being as clear as I thought I was.

          I really dont see the relevance of the study to hijab at all, whether it be a muslim argujng in its favor or a non-muslim arguing against it. What does a hijab have to do with darkness? Or anonymity?

          True, a niqab (as opposed to hijab) obscures identity, but that is a different dyamic because its purpose – regardless of whether the garment is worn by choice or by imposition – is to render the bearer invisible, to exclude them. The anonymity in the study you linked, and the Greater F$%kwad Theory, is a self-aggrandizing sort of anonymity which strips away the ethical substrate but puts the person on center stage.

        • aziz 8:10 pm on March 2, 2010 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          2) How do you address information that comes to new converts that challenges Islamic practices or doctrine?

          great question, one which the example given really doesnt serve very well. Maybe we can restart the debate in a new thread without th ebaggage? A far better example would be to reconcile scientific evolution and creationism. I personally believe in both. And there are aspects that do ddirectly contradict; I have my strategy for dealing with this and I am happy to discuss it. But in the context of the currentthread, it seems out of place.

        • Willow 10:54 am on March 3, 2010 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          John there certainly is plenty of scientific knowledge that would seem to challenge traditional interpretations of religion–Islam is not unique in this regard–but of all the points you could choose to bring up this is possibly the most frivolous. Darkness begets violence? Really? And from this you make a running leap to hijab, which covers less of the face than a pair of sunglasses?

          Come on, man. Let’s get real here for a second. This post reads as either gullible or troubled. There is clearly something deeper going on that you’re worried about or have doubts about, and it has nothing to do with weird studies on the wearing of hoods. Let’s address whatever that is instead, because in the long run your own spiritual and emotional health is much more important than this red herring.

    • Willow 10:52 am on March 2, 2010 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      By this logic, the British Isles and the Pacific Northwest must be crawling with the most unsavory characters on Planet Earth…I hope the next time you’re out on a hot sunny day you’ll remember to forgo a hat and sunglasses in order to avoid sinking into criminality.

      This tempts me to think that the acquisition of scientific facts is much like the acquisition of hadith: reading a few truisms here and there haphazardly on the internet, without sitting down to a serious course of study that provides methodology and context (and common logic), results in paranoid hand-wringing rather than knowledge.

      • aziz 11:05 am on March 2, 2010 Permalink | Log in to Reply

        the methodology of the study sucks. But I can plausibly believe the result as a general finding about human nature; I think we can safely conclude that its irrelevant to hijab.

        Really its just evidence in support of the Greater Internet F$%ktard Theory.

    • cbarwa 2:45 pm on March 2, 2010 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      Reading the title, was worried this was some study about skin-colour :D

    • anon 7:48 pm on March 2, 2010 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      It is not a good idea to paint people in broad strokes and then judge them. Everything depends on INTENTIONS. (and the Quran says, only God knows what is in our hearts)
      A criminal may want to cover up because he has intentions of stealing or other criminal activities—thus his intentions govern his behaviour.
      A Muslim woman covers up because she feels it fulfills a religious requirement–thus her intentions for covering are not for criminal acts—but for piety.

      Which is why, In Islam we will be judged not just on our actions, but also on our INTENTIONS!

  • johnpi 7:30 am on February 11, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: , covering, , ,   

    Irish Imam says Irish women should wear Muslim veil as sign of religious freedom.

    A controversial Irish Islamic leader says female Muslims should wear the veil in Ireland as a sign of religious freedom.

    Ali Selim, Secretary-General of the Irish Council of Imams, says Europe should respect the rights of Muslim women to wear that they want.

    And he pointed to Ireland as a positive role model in the row over the niqab or face veil.

     
    • Lawrence of Arabia 12:25 pm on February 11, 2010 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      you have to admit, European secularists (trying to be generous in my use of terms) seem to be working hard to turn the scarf into a very potent and visible symbol of religious freedom.

  • johnpi 7:50 pm on January 29, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: , covering, , , , ,   

    Italy ‘to follow France with Muslim full-face veil ban.’

    Italy may soon follow France and seek to impose a ban on full-face Muslim veils.

    The country’s equal opportunities minister, Mara Carfagna, said the Italian government would work more closely on four draft bills on the burqa and niqab already circulating in parliamentary committees.

    This week a French parliamentary committee called for women wearing the niqab — a veil with just a gap for the eyes that is worn with a long robe — to be refused access to public transport, schools, universities, post offices and hospitals.

    Ms Carfagna, a former showgirl who prime minister Silvio Berlusconi made a minister in May 2008, said: “I completely agree with the French initiative, which I think will push other European countries and hence, also Italy, to enact laws on this issue.

     
  • johnpi 8:48 am on January 27, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: , , covering, , , , ,   

    There must be over 50 stories on the wires this morning about the impending French face veil ban.

     
  • johnpi 7:42 am on January 15, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: , covering, ,   

    Status of face-covering veils around Europe.

    – FRANCE: After passing 2004 law banning Muslim headscarves and other “ostentatious” religious symbols from classrooms, France’s government submitted a draft law this week on a ban on face-covering veils. The bill could be debated this spring.

    – NETHERLANDS: The Dutch government considered but abandoned legislation in 2006 for a total ban on Muslim veils, after lawyers said it would likely be unconstitutional. Instead, it said it would seek a ban on face-covering veils in all schools and prevent government employees from wearing them. No legislation has yet been passed.

    – BRITAIN: The issue of full-body veils has largely faded from the spotlight since then-British Prime Minister Tony Blair called it a “mark of separation” in 2006. The coverings are more visible on the streets of London than many other European cities.

    – ITALY: Has a law requiring people to keep their faces visible in public, dating to Italy’s crackdown on domestic terrorism decades ago. Representatives of Italy’s Muslim community say it’s rarely applied in the case of women wearing veils.

    – BELGIUM: The mayor of Maaseik banned face-covering veils in 2004, but there is no general ban across the country.

    – GERMANY: Several states in the country, which has a large Muslim immigrant community, have banned teachers from wearing headscarves in public schools.

    – SWITZERLAND: The Swiss Justice Minister Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf said in November the government could “study a possible ban” of face-covering veils if more Muslim women begin wearing them. She said they make her feel “uncomfortable.”

     
  • johnpi 6:55 am on January 8, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: , , covering, ,   

    France’s anti-burka law drafted. $1,000 fine for each time a woman is caught wearing the garment. If it can be somehow determined that a man forced a woman to wear a burka, he would face an even heavier fine.

     
  • johnpi 8:22 am on January 6, 2010 Permalink
    Tags: , , covering, , pharmacy,   

    CAIR threatens lawsuit over Boston pharmacy college decision to ban face veils.

    The Massachusetts College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences said it barred all face masks last fall as a security measure, meant to protect students and ensure that everyone who is on campus actually belongs there.

    But the move has riled the Washington-based Council of American Islamic Relations, whose spokesman claims it is a form of religious discrimination targeted at two campus coeds.

    “They said they came up with this out of the blue,” said the group’s spokesman Ibrahim Hooper. “I think they have two Muslim women wearing face veils, that made them feel uncomfortable and they had to do something about it . . . If this went to court I would feel comfortable the women would prevail because of the legal precedent that has been set.”

    But school spokesman Michael Ratty said before the ban went into effect the school discussed it with members of the local Muslim community, as well as the two female Islamic students who were affected. Ratty said everyone is on board.

    Anecdotally, I’ve noticed there are a lot of Muslims in this career field in the Boston area. I would be surprised if there weren’t Muslims on the board of the college.

     
  • johnpi 8:15 am on December 23, 2009 Permalink
    Tags: , covering, ,   

    A French parliamentarian has started writing the actual legislation to ban the veil in France so that it will be waiting in the wings when a nonbinding report is released in January that is expected to condemn the veil as ‘an affront to French values.’

    The pol has said he not only wants a ban in public buildings but also in the streets of France. Opponents have said the effort to write the bill is premature.

     
  • johnpi 9:29 am on December 21, 2009 Permalink
    Tags: , , covering, , , ,   

    Egypt university to appeal niqab ruling.

    A leading Cairo university will appeal a court decision allowing female students to don the full face veil on campus dormitories, a university official said on Monday.

    “Cairo’s Ain Shams University will immediately appeal the decision issued by the Supreme Administrative Court on Sunday,” the official said.

    The court had said that donning the niqab– a veil covering the entire face– “is one example of freedom that no administrative body or any other body can ban.”

    The court is also expected to rule on December 27 on the case of female university students who have been told they will not be allowed to sit exams if they insist on wearing the full face veil.

     
  • johnpi 8:53 am on December 17, 2009 Permalink
    Tags: , , covering, ,   

    Ayman al-Zawahiri’s wife – Omayma Hassan Ahmed Mohammed Hassan – is advocating for hijab, and has told women to support men in jihad. It was the first-ever official release by Al-Qaeda of a message in her name, according to the article. And I think it might be the first-ever message from a woman.

     
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