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	<title>Talk Islam &#187; civilisation</title>
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	<description>a crescent waxing eloquent</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Richard Dawkins told a session of the Ed &#8230;</title>
		<link>http://talkislam.info/2008/08/19/richard-dawkins-told-a-session-of-the-ed/</link>
		<comments>http://talkislam.info/2008/08/19/richard-dawkins-told-a-session-of-the-ed/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 08:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>thabet</dc:creator>
		
		<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[civilisation]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[creationism]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[europe]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[Islam]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[muslims]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[richard dawkins]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[science]]></category>

		<category><![CDATA[united states]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Richard Dawkins told a session of the Edinburgh International Book Festival that Europe was a &#8220;haven of civilisation&#8221; trapped between the Islamic world and the US.
Sticking with the evolutionary biologist, Razib has a Sokal-esque dig at his philosophical enemies, following news that Dawkins criticised Muslim parents for &#8220;importing&#8221; creationism into British classrooms. (Read the interview [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Dawkins told a session of the <a rel="external" href="http://www.edbookfest.co.uk/">Edinburgh International Book Festival</a> that <a rel="external" href="http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/display.var.2423022.0.Europe_is_haven_of_civilisation_trapped_between_Islam_and_US.php">Europe was a &#8220;haven of civilisation&#8221; trapped between the Islamic world and the US</a>.</p>
<p>Sticking with the evolutionary biologist, Razib has a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair" target="_blank">Sokal-esque</a> dig at his <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/2008/08/richard_dawkins_islamophobe.php" target="_blank">philosophical enemies</a>, following news that <a href="http://talkislam.info/2008/08/06/richard-dawkins-has-criticised-muslim-pa/" target="_blank">Dawkins criticised Muslim parents for &#8220;importing&#8221; creationism into British classrooms</a>. (Read the interview in full at <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/education/article4448420.ece" target="_blank"><em>The Times</em></a>.)</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have any data or information on Muslim views on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_science">&#8216;creationist science&#8217;</a> in the UK, although there have been some stories in the past reporting concern from lecturers about how <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/feb/21/religion.highereducation" target="_blank">Muslim and other religious  students view evolution, especially those studying medicine or science subjects</a>. Muslim media have also reported this dismissive attitude &#8212; a 2005 summer edition of <em>Q-News </em>apparently suggested that <a href="http://ihsan-net.blogspot.com/2005/07/unthinking-roots-of-terrorism.html" target="_blank">&#8220;</a><span class="fullpost"><a href="http://ihsan-net.blogspot.com/2005/07/unthinking-roots-of-terrorism.html" target="_blank">Harun Yahya had, in the eyes of most &#8216;literate Muslims&#8217;, effectively defeated the arguments of Darwin&#8221;</a>. </span>Based on personal experiences, I would also agree that evolutionary science is probably widely dismissed by Muslim students, with many focussing on the &#8216;practical&#8217; elements of, say, medicine or pharmacology.</p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t know if anyone has carried out any serious research into this area (Muslim views on creationism in the UK). And while I get Razib&#8217;s point about seriously considering the data on Turkey*, I just don&#8217;t think public champions of science like Dawkins can rest their claims about schoolteachers and Muslim pupils on a visit or two to schools &#8212; it&#8217;s just not good science.</p>
<p>Then there is the choice of words. For me, use of words like &#8220;import&#8221; is not dissimilar to David Blunkett&#8217;s talk of Britian being <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2002/apr/24/immigrationpolicy.immigrationandpublicservices" target="_blank">&#8220;swamped&#8221;</a> by asylum seekers. Added to his claim that it is <em>&#8220;impossible to say anything against Islam in this country&#8221; </em>he is alluding the old argument that <a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bloody-Foreigners-Robert-Winder/dp/0349115664" target="_blank">People Out There Are Threatening To Destroy Our Way Of Life</a>. In fact, his claim that you can&#8217;t say what you want about Islam is, to put it very bluntly, <em>bullshit</em>. You can say <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-enemy-within-fear-of-islam-britains-new-disease-859996.html" target="_blank">whatever</a> you want about Muslims and their beliefs and get it <a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/the-shameful-islamophobia-at-the-heart-of-britains-press-861096.html" target="_blank">published as front page news</a>; you can even peddle yourself as an expert in the media although you may know very little about the subject under discussion**.</p>
<p>This is not to say Dawkins or <a href="http://talkislam.info/2008/08/18/johann-hari-discusses-child-brides-in-ye/" target="_blank">anyone else</a> cannot have an open and frank discussion about Islam, or any other belief system, without the threat of legal reprecussions (i.e. freedom of speech) or the threat of violence***. But it is worth nothing that none of these debates &#8212; whether on the &#8216;veil&#8217;, or on offensive cartoons, or on works of literature &#8212; take place inside a vaccum. They have a context &#8212; local, national or global context &#8212; in which they <em>can</em> be analysed.</p>
<p><em>*For more on Turkey&#8217;s creationism see an earlier post on <a href="http://talkislam.info/2008/07/21/when-muslims-and-christians-unite-cbc-r/" target="_blank">Talk Islam</a>.</em></p>
<p><em>**</em><em>This includes <a href="http://pixelisation.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/ruth-gledhills-dodgy-caliphate-factoids/" target="_blank">trivial mistakes</a> and more <a href="http://pixelisation.wordpress.com/2007/07/27/ill-informed-claims-in-the-times/" target="_blank">serious errors</a>.</em><em></em></p>
<p><em>***</em><em>Protection from violence in this context can come under &#8216;legal reprecussions&#8217; &#8212; the state is obliged to protect people who express views from such threats and also punish the perpetrators.</em><em> How far does this legal protection include protection from social, political and economic reprecussions? </em></p>
<p><a href="http://www.jdoqocy.com/click-2963632-10513809" target="_top">
<img src="http://www.awltovhc.com/image-2963632-10513809" width="468" height="60" alt="Sign Up With Blockbuster, Get 50% Off First Month." border="0"/></a></p>]]></content:encoded>
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