Anyone plan to see Religulous?
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willow
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thabet
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razib
in the USA the same proportion of atheists are religious as non-religious who are atheists. more here.
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thabet
AC Grayling doesn’t half talk tripe sometimes. Atheists can be just as abusive of power and become advocates for war (1, 2, 3) for entirely ’secular’ reasons, just as believers can for ‘religious’ reasons.
In fact, the atheists I noted above were just as assured of their beliefs about the Iraq invasion as Tony Blair was when he appealed to his unwavering conviction that he was ‘doing the right thing’ and his apparently firm belief in God.
(That being said I did agree with some of his other points, e.g. disestablishment of the Church, positioning of religious groups into civil society, etc).
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razib
a few people were curious about who i was mocking in my post, Richard Dawkins - Islamophobe?.
primarily i was mocking militant atheists who revel in their bigotry toward white christians, especially lower class ones. i don’t use the word bigotry to cast extreme aspersions, i actually think that discrimination is pretty natural, and we have likes and dislikes, and they’re normal. granted, there are lines (e.g., violence) that shouldn’t be crossed, and civility that must be maintained (e.g., i assume most “public” individuals should hold back their contempt for inbred rednecks for the sake of decorum). rather, a particular type of atheist truly glories in their ability to accuse lower class conservative christians of being basically subhuman.
i’m not really opposed to this prima facie; i’ve never made bones about my low opinion of the unintelligent (those who i term ‘tards’). but, i do think that this sort of contempt and bigotry is best appreciated when evenhandedly applied. the reality that is that cousin marriage rates even among lower class appalachian whites is far lower than among british pakistanis, who claim that the practice is part and parcel of their religion. this of course makes them a great test case for linkage studies on deleterious recessive diseases! if one accepts the rule of thumb that you can remove 5 IQ points from expectation for first cousin marriages, it is also quite literally turn them into tards through pedigree collapse (no worry about a british muslims becoming the majority if they go samaritan).
as it is, atheists of the dawkinsian variety tend to hold their most extreme fire from muslims and other non-christians. the main reason is that they’re colored by and large (or, if jews, obviously there are other valences at work). white people have a bad history of accusing non-whites of being subhuman, so even if the rationale is aracial, it “looks bad.” this is one reason i like to point out that black americans are far more religious than white americans; syllogistic logic would imply that if the religious are more subhuman, black americans are more subhuman than white americans. this is not a logical inference that many militant atheists are quite excited about shouting from the rooftops. if so, i would perhaps wonder if a little reflection might be warranted in regards to their militancy toward religion qua religion and their dismissal of the humanity of the religious.
secondarily, i was poking some fun at some western educated muslim activists who i am rather sure are quite consciously using the master’s tools to tear down the master’s house. e.g., CAIR activists who are peddling the discourse of mckinnon and dworkin in other contexts.
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thabet
Razib, did you attend this party?
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aziz
Razib fleshes out an important distinction between theism and Creationism, and explains why the distinction matters to science:
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thabet
It is official: Razib is smarter than everyone on this website.
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aziz
Never argue theology with atheists. Even more importantly, never argue theology with muslims who argue with atheists. On the plus side, I got takfired again - it’s like a badge of honor.
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muse
The Atheist Delusion takes on militant atheism, responding well to some of the contentions raised by the new crop of anti-God authors (Dawkens et. al. )
Zealous atheism renews some of the worst features of Christianity and Islam. Just as much as these religions, it is a project of universal conversion. Evangelical atheists never doubt that human life can be transformed if everyone accepts their view of things, and they are certain that one way of living - their own, suitably embellished - is right for everybody. To be sure, atheism need not be a missionary creed of this kind. It is entirely reasonable to have no religious beliefs, and yet be friendly to religion. It is a funny sort of humanism that condemns an impulse that is peculiarly human. Yet that is what evangelical atheists do when they demonise religion.
I’m currently reading Chris Hedges’ book “I Don’t Believe in Atheists” who makes similar points as Gray. I find it interesting that even while authors like Gray and Hedges criticize the phenomenon of militant atheism, they manage to do so with the same undercurrents of condescension towards religion as those they criticize. However, this essay is worth reading from beginning to end and makes many important points.
I would like to read someone who tackles this phenomenon of militant atheism from a faith-based perspective. Suggestions? Have any current Muslim scholars articulated a position on this issue?
(h/t Avari)
