Another domestic terror plot foiled. It’s likely that the informers who tipped off the FBI were fellow muslims from his mosque, as usual.
Tagged: American Muslims Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts
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aziz
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abunoor
“As Muslim leaders, we have witnessed the physical, psychological, and emotional torment that victims of domestic violence endure, and we are taking this opportunity to speak out against this vicious crime. The victims of domestic violence are not at fault for the abuse imparted upon them and the perpetrator has not been given “divine” permission to inflict pain on others. There is absolutely no basis for domestic violence in Islam and Islam is unequivocally against all forms of abuse.”
http://www.marwaaly.com/2011/10/muslim-chaplains-against-domestic-violence/ -
abunoor
Gallup has a new report Muslim Americans: Faith, Freedom and the Future that it released today about the American Muslim community. My take on the report, which does contain some interesting results to discuss, is up at Muslim Matters.
http://muslimmatters.org/2011/08/02/new-gallup-report-muslim-americans-faith-freedom-and-the-future/
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abunoor
I have a piece up on “Lessons From the Life of Malcolm X” over at Muslim Matters.
http://muslimmatters.org/2011/06/29/lessons-from-the-life-of-malcolm-x/
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aziz
excellent.
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abunoor
Thanks Aziz.
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aziz
How welcoming will our mosques be of LGBT?
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Abu Noor
Alhamdulillaah my role as a Muslim chaplain in a university setting has allowed me to speak at several events around the issue of LGBTQA and Islam or faith communities in general and has allowed me for the first time I can remember to meet over the last couple of years Muslims who openly identified as LGBT (I don’t believe any of them regularly attend any mosque).
I like the basic point made in this piece but I think it is a great point to start a discussion, but I don’t think it can really be a satisfactory take for long, although I am still actively trying to think through this issue, and I don’t necessarily have a better alternative.
First of all, I do think the issue has to be seen as part of the largeer context where the vast majority of Muslims do not regularly attend any mosque at all and many many people outside of the LGBTQ community would say they do not find most mosques “welcoming” although what that means is a much longer discussion. I am really not sure how this will work among the Muslim community, where the dynamics are at this time certainly different than other communities, but for most people who identify themeselves as being gay I do not think over the long term they will find a community “welcoming” if it does not affirm their identity in a positive way.
Is my point clear? So while I certainly agree that one should welcome people regardless of their sins in the Muslim community, I do not actually think that people will feel welcomed by a community that perceives something central to their identity to be essentially sinful.
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aziz
I think that a key point to make is one of identity. Are LGBT muslims simply muslims who happen to be LGBT? Or are they LGBT who happen to be muslim? There is a tension which is not dissimilar to the muslim-american duality, but of course much more strained since there is no fundamental theological contradiction between being muslim and a loyal citizen of your nation. The question is do LGBT muslims simply want acceptance as muslims, or do they want acceptance as LGBT. The former is easy, and the perspective expressed by the link. We should welcome muslims to our mosques, period. However, social reprogramming of muslim communities to be more accepting of LGBT as a whole is simply not realistic, nor is it even necessary, inn my opinion.
Any muslim who is LGBT should have the freedome to participate as a muslim in our communities. They shoudl not be excluded on the basis of being LGBT if they are seeking inclusion as a muslim. But no mosque should be forced to openly reorient its communal traditions and mores around LGBT.
In practice I think it does boil down to a version of dont ask, dont tell, dont discriminate. It will probably be easy for an LGBT single person to fit in with oftaar, salaat, etc. But if that same person’s LGBT status is revealed (or even asked, and answered honestly), then there should be no retribution or exclusions.
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Arwi
It will probably be easy for an LGBT single person to fit in with oftaar, salaat, etc.
Easy for the straight men around them, but easy for the gay person in hiding, I don’t think so.
I don’t know f you read the Muslim Hedonist blog or her later Recovering Conservo Muslim blog, what I liked about her writing was that she was honest about the griefs she experienced, and the price of what you call “easy to fit in”.
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aziz
no, i hadn’t – and I’ll readily acknowledge that I am speaking theoretically. I know we have several LGBT muslims here at TI, and I am hoping they and others exploit the opportunity this thread provides.
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Arwi
I don’t think it can really be a satisfactory take for long,
Yes, I agree. I wonder what you think of the arguments of Siraj al-Haq about homosexuality and hierarchy.
(I find them risible, but I am unqualified to deliver such a judgement).
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islamoyankee
Salaam Abu Noor. I’d like to hear more about your experiences, and if you’re willing, perhaps even try to turn into a piece for Religion Dispatches.
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aziz
My Best Friend is Muslim – this is a really heartwarming project and I think the photos are full of warmth and sincere emotion. It’s easy to be cynical about this stuff, but I heartily endorse it.
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MBFIM
thanks for the link love! we’d love to see a post from or about you . . . ?
–My Best Friend Is Muslim
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aziz
Reading the (excellent) NYT profile on Yasir Qadhi linked earlier, I wonder if American muslim extremism is fundamentally rooted in guilt?
The appeal of extremists like Awlaki to disaffected, educated political muslim youth might fundamentally be a combination of self-hatred (perception of themselves as cowardly, soft) and remorse at having “won the lottery” of living in a free and luxurious society.
Take it further, and you see that democracy fundamentally is the power of accountability of the People over their government, which implies collective responsibility of every citizen for their governments’ actions.
I reject that hypothesis and guilt, btw, because America and teh West are not truly democratic – they are Republics. The power of the people is not as great for accountability – it is not reactive, but proactive,. People vote for how they want things to be, not to punish the rulers for how things are. Elections look forward, not backwards.
And, fundamentally, foreign policy simply does not register on the scale of issues the way jobs, economy, social issues, etc do – so even if muslims were united politically here in voting against politicians who they felt would promote policies abroad that might hurt muslims, they’d be relegated to voting for irrelevant third parties and thus neutering their own political impact.
This gets into the argument that muslims shoudl be apolitical and not vote, another argument I disagree with. If you believe in that collective responsibility, then abstaining from the political process doesn’t absolve you. The only rational outcome is to leave the society entirely – either leave the country or retreat like the Amish so that you do not benefit from the pervasive fruits of your participation in society.
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yursil
One of the issues in the Muslim community today is that supposed mainstream ‘leaders’ have been compromised by their own past.
We don’t have many “star-speakers” (the ones people pay to see) who have consistently held one-world view for any decent period of time.
Some people think this can be portrayed as growth and wisdom, but that seems like ‘spin’ to me. It can also just as easily come across as incoherence and cognitive dissonance. It’s a damning fact that nearly all Muslim voices were outright firebrand kafir-hating screamers just a decade ago.
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yursil
woops belongs in the other thread.
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
Aziz, I think a discussion of the points you make is very important and interesting…when I get some time inshAllah I will pick it up
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aziz
it might have scrolled off to oblivion by then, so make a new post and link to the old one
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abunoor
Major profile on my teacher Shaykh Yasir Qadhi is now on the web, written by NYTimes Pulitzer Prize winner Andrea Elliott. I haven’t read it yet, but I was one of the people she interviewed for the piece in the “months she spent in the insular world of young American Salafis” (her description).
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/20/magazine/mag-20Salafis-t.html?_r=2
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PrettyPinkPonies
I’ve no love for Yasir Qadhi based on his views on Shi’a Islam. He actually refers to us as “raafidi”.
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abunoor
I think your understanding of his views may be outdated, which is not to say that he agrees with Shi’ism. I have taken an intensive class on Shi’ism with him in the last couple of years and, again without agreeing with Shi’i theology, he spent a good deal of the time in the class arguing against name calling and seriously asking a hostile audience to try to at least understand the Shi’a perspective and not to simply launch attacks based on exaggerations, misconceptions, or attributing the extreme beliefs of a few to the large majority of Shi’a.
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PrettyPinkPonies
I’ve never taken a course, only seen his videos on the Shi’a. I was less than pleased with the presentation, which made us look like crazy people who all think the Qur’an was edited and that the real one is the “Fatima Qur’an”. I’m no Twelver, but even I know that’s considered heresy even among the fringe/extremist Twelver groups.
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abunoor
And this is why I am telling you explicitly that this is not what he teaches currently.
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PrettyPinkPonies
Ah, I see. Well, that’s cheering news.
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bk
It seems he came around. Rather inspiringly, meaning, he studied and studied and finally came to the conclusion that all man-made tradition and theology is suspect and God alone knows the truth.
Only the Qur’an is 100% trust worthy.
Doesn’t take a genius but still, few finally come to that conclusion, Unfortunately, what we see is that the more someone studies, the more they become invested in a particular view.
But Qadhi impressed Griffel as “profoundly intelligent” and willing to engage in critical thinking. At Medina, Qadhi’s studies revolved around the search for an absolute religious truth. At Yale, the line of inquiry was markedly different. In Qadhi’s first class with Griffel in the fall of 2005, the subject was a 12th-century Sufi jurist. “You, Yasir, probably know more about this guy,” Griffel said. “But we’re going to study how to study him.” Qadhi was struck by this analytical approach. “The question is more historical in nature — it’s about where did this idea come from, how did it affect later ideas,” Qadhi said.
For Qadhi, the Koran remained the unequivocal word of God. But he began to think more critically about the “man-made” canon that informed Islamic theology. So much of Qadhi’s intransigence — especially toward other Muslim sects — was based on the view that his tradition was divinely ordained. He came to see Salafiya as yet another “human development” that was handed down over generations and therefore subject to imperfection. “I realized that, in many issues, only God knows the ultimate truth,” he says.
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aziz
I take him at his word, but I think that the damage done from his earlier views will outlast the influence of his rethinking.
Also, I guess I disagree that canon is man-made. This is the essence of takfirism. We have to be unafraid to assert our belief in Truth, and reconcile it with others’. Saying everyone is wrong, including yourself, is a kind of abdication.
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
It is a misunderstanding (by either the reader or the author of the piece) to think that Shaykh Yasir does not accept any canon or only accepts the Qur’an. Shaykh Yasir not only accepts the Sunni canon of authentic hadith completely but he also accepts that the understanding of the early Muslims, especially the companions of the Prophet (saw) is especially privileged and binding.
I would be interested to hear what you think was the “damage” done by Shaykh Yasir’s earlier views Aziz. He is certainly been much more influential to a much wider group of people in the last few years than he was in his earlier years, and the majority of those who admired him back then have accepted his evolution, with a minority either being confused or rejecting his new outlook.
Allah knows best.
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aziz
the damage is simply the entrenchment of anti-Shi’a viewpoints among a subset of american muslims. He promoted tose ideas and taught them; not all of his students would have been exposed to his subsequent (and clearly, intellectually honest) change of mind.
For example, user Julaybib at SunniForum seems to still hold negative views of Shi’a, at least in 2008 on this thread.
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?33656-Hii…Agnostic-gt-Islam-gt-Sunni-v-Shia…./page4
Meanwhile, Yasir Qadhi’s lectures on the Mahdi remain on YouTube with hundreds of thousands of views, and there seems to be no followup video series from him to refute his earlier arguments. The start of this video (#9) is particularly offensive.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZjEdX7-iwA&feature=player_embedded#at=20]
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aziz
I agree bk. Its inspiring, alhamdoillah
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
Aziz, I do not claim there was no “damage” in the sense that his previous views had some influence, but I am just saying that he is more influential now so on net his current views will have more influence.
And although he has certainly moderated his views and especially his tone, no doubt both Shaykh Yasir Qadhi and myself still hold views that you disagree with or that you probably find offensive. We have deep disagreements about things that matter.
I find you link to be bizarre, though. Am I missing what connection “Julaybib” has to Shaykh Yasir. For your information, perhaps all Sunnis look the same to you but SunniForum would not be a place for people influenced by Shaykh Yasir Qadhi,
In any event
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aziz
You asked what damage I was referring to, I was just giving you examples. Yasir Qadhi is quoited extensively by many at Sunni Forums as well as other websites with a heavy participation by american salafis.
Of course we have deep disagreements about important things. Those things do matter, but I don’t agree that eth disagreements themselves matter as much. I dont actually find anything you or other Sunnis believe to be offensive as far as our fiqh goes. What would be offensive would be, you finding MY beliefs offensive. Or vice versa.
We have as much obligation to disagree with each other as we do to respect each other.
My only complaint about Yasir Qadhi’s legacy is the way it delegitimized other schools of thought, instead of accepting that other muslims may have disagreements. He has changed his mind and his tune, but the body of work remains out there and unless Qadhi makes an effort to counter it (ie, siomething I could link to in that thread at SunniForum refuting Julaybib’s invocation of Qadhi’s earlier sermon, as an example), then he will probably always have his mroe radical views attributed to him, no matter how much he changes his mind or views from here on out.
And thats a shame, because I really like what he has to say, and it would be a tragedy if his words were dismissed out of hand, as they deserved to be when he was more extremist. The past Qadhi is still eclipsing the present one, absent any action.
I agree he is more influential in some circles now, but the article points out how his moderate tone is alienating the very followers who responded most to his earlier radicalism.
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Sid
Serioulsy, another sh**ty article from the Times on Islam? I couldn’t get past the fact that AlMaghrib allegedly teaches “Salafi” theology and his Macbook was an “Islamic” apple green? (The “Islamic” green is really much more forest than apple) Really, what the f**k? Someone tell me how the other 10(!?!) pages are.
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PrettyPinkPonies
Yeah I know, right? It was not really worth 10 pages; I mean there’s meat there but why it had to be ten pages was inexplicable.
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hakim
ASAWR
yeah, on page 7: <>
Really? Which Sufi order? Shadhili? Qadiri? Bektashi? What about the other ones?Anyway, i think it is good to see some discussion of diversity of opinion among American Muslims highlighted in the MSM. As the article pointed out, there are still terrorism analysts in the gubmint who don’t know the difference.
As for “Salafiya”, one of the things i found interesting about my time on MWU was that the Progressives also use some Salafi methodology in defending their positions. IIRC Tariq Ramadan mentioned that fact in his Western Muslims book.
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hakim
doh! missing quote (didn’t there used to be a quote-box thingy on this reply panel?) from p7:
“The following year, Qadhi further pushed the limits, making a pact of ‘mutual respect and cooperation’ with American clerics of the Sufi order, Salafiya’s longtime enemy. “-
PrettyPinkPonies
Some MWUers were Salafist. We weren’t of a single mind by any stretch of the imagination.
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bk
I didn’t know Popeyes was hilal.
Short beards and capri pants. Sounds like Greece.
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PrettyPinkPonies
Those guys in Boston make me actively angry. They have the highwaters and khuff on and there’s like 2 feet of snow. If the Prophet lived in Boston, he would have worn WARM CLOTHING. It’s blind mimicry.
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bk
Welcome ot wonders of orthodox religion.
Does every child have the same exact relationship with his/her parents? Or does each child create a unique relationship based on their own personality and identity?Somehow, with God, the most personal relationship, we all have to follow the leader…exactly.
It is kind of absurd.
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bingregory
Yeah that was a tantalizing snippet. Abunoor, any idea which tariqat is being referenced here?
Also, who was the convert Imam from Colorado who impressed the young Shaykh Yasir?
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Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
I think it was written in a confusing way, it was not with any particular tariqa, but what the author is referring to is the “Pledge of Mutual Respect and Cooperation between Sunni Muslim Scholars, Organizations and Students of Sacred Knowledge.” This is signed by many of the most prominent da’ees and teachers in the West. You can read it here: http://muslimmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/pledge-of-mutual-respect-and-cooperation-between-sunni-muslim-scholars-and-organizations-2.pdf Among those who signed are many identified with sufism, but it does not identify them by tariqa.
The convert imam from Colorado referred to is Shaykh Jamaal Zarabozo hafithuAllah.
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bingregory
Thanks for that, Abu Noor.
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aziz
no threadjack intended, but there’s also a profile on Suhaib Webb now:
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE72J3LH20110320?feedType=RSS&ca=rdt
pretty short but glad to see American imams getting positive press and profile.
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abunoor
Imam Suhaib Webb’s message from Cairo:
As you all know, the brave people of Egypt are standing and asking for one thing: their basic freedom and right to live under the shade of justice. Sadly, there are those in the Middle East, as well as Washington, who are irresponsible enough to question such a right. How can we be satisfied with exporting everything from iPhones to MTV, but fail to share in exporting the foundations of our own country? Foundations we claim to hold as dear?
As a global community, we can all relate to the cry of the Egyptian people. It is a cry for justice. A cry for fairness. A cry for democracy, and a just system of rule. This call rings even louder since it has corresponded with Black History Month. I witnessed the two Million Man March yesterday. I have not felt such love for humanity captured in the mass movement of people, save for the day Martin Luther King Jr. gave his important “I Have a Dream” speech.
Imam Suhaib is encouraging American Muslims to fast tomorrow and make du’a for the people of Egypt.
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aziz
The founder of “Muslims for Bush” has quit the GOP and has joined the Democratic Party.
It’s amazing to me that for him the turning point was not his treatment at the GOP convention when he ran for Colorado state treasurer, but rather the utterly meaningless Park 51 debate. But hey, ok man, whatever – as long as you’ve finally seen the light.
Great diary on this at DailyKos also worth a read.
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thabet
BREAKING NEWS: Man quits one pro-war party for another pro-war party.
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aziz
i dont dispute that, either, it’s why i am not a Democrat myself (but am politically aligned as far as my domestic agenda goes).
should be noted that teh diarist at DKos was wrong about Dubai Ports World – the GOP was on the right side of that one and the Dems demagogued it.
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thabet
The way some people seamlessly move from one party to another shows how much ‘faith’ they actually have in the supposed ideological underpinnings of these organisations.
To use another ‘Muslim’ example: Rehman Chisti stood for Labour in 2005 against Frances Maude. Labour, of course, is meant to be a party of working people. How far did Chisti’s affiliation with the labour movement extend? Well, not that far or deep: somewhere between 2005 and 2010, when he jumped shipped, moved to the Tories and even started working as an aide to Maude. He was selected as a candidate in Kent, and was voted as MP for Gillingham and Rainham earlier this year.
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MT
thabet has a point. If this guy had left the GOP and gone independent he would have more credibility. He could have set up an unaffiliated organization for politically conservative Muslims or something like that. Instead he dove headfirst into Pelosi’s arms, which doesn’t sit well with his claims that he’s “been a vocal fiscal conservative for years”. And he seems unaware that many prominent Democrats, such as Howard Dean, also oppose Park 51. I’m guessing that Pelosi conveniently forgot to mention that!
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aziz
since when is P51 a muslim issue? many MUSLIMS oppose it too. I have taken major issue with Park51 on my own blog and I resent the way its advocates have tried to equate their financial interest wth the self interest of the entire national muslim community.
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MT
I didn’t say that P51 is a Muslim issue. However, Muhammad Ali Hasan seems to think that it is.
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aziz
you seemed to suggest implicitly you agreed that P51 was a muslim issue when you cited Democrats’ opposition to it as evidence. my apology.
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abunoor and 
Arwi, and 1 other are discussing. 
yursil are discussing. 
MT, and 
thabet are discussing. 
aziz 6:34 am on January 10, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply
yup, confirmed – the muslim community played an integral role in foiling the plot.