Major news outlets and Twitter is abuzz with news that Osama bin Laden is dead, and the US has his body…
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thabet
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thabet
People wearing a certain model of Casio watch from the 1980s were seized by American forces in Afghanistan on suspicion of being terrorists, because the watches were used as timers by Al-Qaeda.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/8471907/WikiLeaks-Guantanamo-Bay-terrorist-secrets-revealed.html -
thabet
Paul Cruishank says the Arab, and specifically Egyptian, revolts could see the demise of al-Qa’ida. Thomas Hegghammer says maybe not.
It is also worth going through Jihadica’s archives to see the response of some jihadis on the web (1, 2, 3). Makes for amusing reading.
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thabet
Pear-shaped and Pete Tong:
Although there are no firm figures, security and political officials say hundreds of the well-disciplined fighters — many of whom have gained extensive knowledge about the American military — appear to have rejoined Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia. Beyond that, officials say that even many of the Awakening fighters still on the Iraqi government payroll, possibly thousands of them, covertly aid the insurgency.
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Dan
I don’t get the Pete Tong reference here (yes I know who Pete Tong is and listen to his radio show a lot).
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thabet
It’s all gone Pete Tong!
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Dan
Ahhhh duh! Man I’m slow today lol
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aziz
once the Doctor returns I will again be able to communicate with my British brethren again.
of course, i need to hack my web proxy so I can watch on the BBC viewer online…
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Dan
I’m sure MikeLyons can teach a thing or two to you about web proxies ahaha
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thabet
Well, you’d better make the best of BBC’s online programmes.
Now that The Cancer’s friends are in power now I fear in 4-5 years time there may no longer be a BBC as we know it today. They have long wanted to kill off the BBC as competition to the big C’s ugly corporation and now they have their chance.
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aziz
i’ve long entertained the idea that the BBC would be more immune to pressure if it were a private nonprofit rather than a government entity.
Actually what would really be awesome for journalism would be for Al Jazeera and BBC to merge. political independence. But also deep resources.
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thabet
Clashes between militants and Mauritanian troops on the Mali border:
A dozen militants are said to have been killed in the fighting in Raz-el-Ma, 250km (155 miles) west of Timbuktu.
Mauritania has also sent combat aircraft into the battle, security sources said.
France has denied the raid is connected to the kidnapping in Niger of seven foreigners earlier this week.
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thabet
France 24 has more, noting France’s involvement:
A Mauritanian military source said that French forces were not directly involved in Saturday’s offensive.
“It’s true that allies, especially the French, have given us valuable information for the operation but they are not at our side,” the source told AFP.
With the latest kidnappings, French nationals working for French firms in the north of Niger were evacuated on Friday towards Niamey or repatriated to France.
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thabet
Pay anyone enough money and you’ll get anyone to blow something up for you (or: all governments will use the terror threat to their advantage at some point or another):
A series of deadly attacks last month in once secure areas, including the southern cities of Kut and Basra, caught the Iraqi authorities by surprise and, they say, indicate that al Qa’eda has made contacts with Shiite groups willing to carry out strikes in the region.
The cooperation, driven by a mixture of money, fear and a mutual hatred of Iran, represents a stark reversal. Since the formation of al Qa’eda in the late 1990s, the radical Sunni Muslim group and its affiliates have regularly targeted Shiites, whom they consider heretics. That hostility continued following the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003 and the factional fighting that broke out soon thereafter.
There are signs, however, that this longstanding acrimony has given way to the desire of al Qa’eda sympathisers to penetrate Iraq’s Shiite-dominated southern provinces. To that end, they have found willing Shiite allies, according to regional officials.
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thabet
Not quite as sensational as the stuff that has been leaked to Wikileaks, or even that eye-opening I think, but the National Security Archives website at The George Washington University has obtained some documents related to the run up and aftermath of the US-led invasion of Afghanistan. The documents show that the Bush administration had ‘absolutely no inclination’ to negotiate with the Taliban over the terrorist attacks on 11 September 2001. Pakistan, notably a senior ISI official, disagreed with the US with this view claiming ‘real victory’ would only come ‘through talks’ and it would be better if the US allowed the Afghans to apprehend Osama bin Laden.
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Arwi
Has the Taliban won in Afghanistan. Abubakar Siddique also says that victory will come through talks.
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Shams al-Nahar
i would say yes.
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thabet
A country, blighted by poverty, political strife and a weak corrupt government, being bombed by US drones which target ‘terrorists’ but killed civilians. ‘An army’ of young men ready take up arms for some global cause. Sound familiar?
The Guardian spent two months in the country, travelling to the tribal regions of Abyan and Shabwa, where al-Qaida has set up shop and where suspected US drone attacks have killed scores of civilians and few insurgents. Speaking to jihadis, security officials and tribesmen, it became clear how a combination of government alliances, bribes, broken promises and bungled crackdowns has allowed Islamists to flourish and led to the emergence of the country as a regional hub for al-Qaida.
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Dan
South Yemen should NEVER have reunited with North Yemen. It is hard to believe but South Yemen was a far more progressive place than it is now.
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Tec15
If you consider a corrupt Communist party fighting it’s internal politics literally with machine guns, executions of former overthrown leaders, collectivized fishing, an East German trained secret police, a safe haven for Marxist Euro terrorists, an anemic economy, mass emigration etc etc to be progressive….
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thabet
‘Al-Qaida in Yemen’:
Standing in the middle of the chaos is one of the jihadi gunmen for whom the town has become famous. Thin, short, with a well-groomed beard and shoulder-length hair, he is dressed in the Afghan style: shalwar kameez, camouflage vest and an old Kalashnikov. He is either a bandit imposing a protection racket on the merchants or a rebel protecting them from the corrupt regime – and most probably a bit of both.
Note the following quote:
“I agree with George Bush in one thing,” he said, pulling at his beard. “He gave us a really accurate wisdom: you are either with us or against us, you are either with Islam or with the crusaders. I tell the Muslim clerics in the whole world you are either with the flag of the mujahideen and God is great or you are with the flag of the cross … there is no other option.”
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thabet
‘Al-Qaeda tirade against Turkey’:
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Dan
The only thing I am surprised about is how long it took for them to condemn Turkey.
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sage and 
aziz are discussing. 
thabet, and 
Dan are discussing. 
Shams al-Nahar and 
Arwi are discussing. 
Tec15 and 
aziz 6:02 am on May 2, 2011 Permalink | Log in to Reply
Mission Accomplished!
sage 7:17 am on May 2, 2011 Permalink | Log in to Reply
I suppose I don’t entirely begrudge America for our display of exhilaration and happiness over killing someone. I personally think it’s barbaric – after all, like most uncivilized countries, we base our foriegn policy on old cowboy movies and our moral policy on “an eye for an eye” – but I do understand. But wouldn’t it have been preferable to have him tried, imprisoned and interrogated? Not because it’s more moral (What does a country with the death penalty know about morality?) but because it makes sense strategically? It may have been to everyone’s benefit to comprehend what Al Qaeda is about, and perhaps we would have been able to infiltrate the network and capture a few other masterminds. And if he had to be killed, couldn’t we at least have interrogated him first?
But to the American masses, it’s all about the killing. Anything deeper than that just doesn’t provide a satisfactory catharsis.
aziz 8:56 am on May 2, 2011 Permalink | Log in to Reply
You’re right, we are all monsters. Bloodthirsty savages, we.
BTW, it’s possible to make this critique in a way that doesn’t reveal a knee-jerkl anti-Americanism. Glenn Greenwald is a honorable example:
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/index.html
sage 10:46 am on May 2, 2011 Permalink | Log in to Reply
“Bloodthirsty savages, we.” “knee-jerk anti-Americanism.”
Yes, that’s the typically juvenile response I’ve come to expect from most people. I’m sorry I’m spoiling everyone’s moment of joy and happiness, but instead of levelling insults and mockery, why don’t you tell me where I’m incorrect in my statement? That’s what’s done in intellectual discourse. We don’t engage in insults, but in rational concepts and ideas. I’m looking forward to reading some.
aziz 11:50 am on May 2, 2011 Permalink | Log in to Reply
my poor dear, who first used teh word “barbaric” and “uncivilized” in this thread? In fairness to you, if you actually think “to the American masses, it’s all about the killing” is a way to begin a civil conversation then perhaps that excuses your total lack of manners.
But fine, I’ll engage on the merits.
The operation was almost certainly legal as this excellent analysis points out (h/t @thabet1979): http://www.ejiltalk.org/was-the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden-lawful/
But its worth noting that even if it weren’t, there are limitations to international law, which has been sorely tested in the terrorism age (just as they were inthe piracy age). See: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2011/05/bin-laden-osama
The bottom line is that if OBL had wanted to surrender, he didnt have to fight back when the seal team arrived. But once he engaged them, they had every right to fire back. I suppose you will now argue that the barbaric, uncivilized Americans should have restrained themselves even in the face of OBL’s resistance to only injure him. Im further certain you wouldnt believe that such restraint would be something above and beyond what ordinary criminals face on the streets from police in similar situations. But for you, this debate is really an opening for critique of America – all about the killing, right? Well played, sir.
sage 10:37 pm on May 2, 2011 Permalink
I never said all Americans are uncivilized or barbaric. Some are, some aren’t. But think of it this way. I’m half-Italian, and I have no problems saying that Italians (from Italy, I mean) are corrupt, or at least that’s the general tendency. A statement like that doesn’t offend me for the simple reason that I’m not corrupt. I consider myself to be a civilized American, and I’m pretty sure I’m not wrong, but even if I was uncivilized I wouldn’t feel offended by the comments I made. But the issue is that when Americans gather around and dance and shoot fireworks over someone’s death, then their uncivilized character manifests itself. And I’m sorry to say this, but that’s also what happened in your comments to me.
Now as to your scenario. Seriously? How naive does one have to be to believe that the official version of the attack – and the reaction by Bin Laden – is the gospel truth? I mean, come on. There are many suspicious holes in the story, and of course there’s always the concept of a lying government, you know. And it sounds like a fiction, doesn’t it? He died in battle – how honorable! And of course he threw himself into the line of fire while trying to kill our fighting men and women, which means he’s a coward. And yes, it may very well have happened that way. If we had a corpse, it could be examined and forensics by an independent team could easily verify the story. Except there is no corpse. The body had to be buried within 24 hours in accordance with the Muslim religion, that’s their official excuse. So was killed with great sensitivity, that’s what we’re supposed to believe.
Even you’re sugarcoating your story. It’s not like Bin Laden had a choice. For all we know, he DID try to surrender. But it’s being reported all over the news that the specific mission was to take him out. Not to capture him, but to kill him.
aziz 11:29 am on May 3, 2011 Permalink
Your logic is impeccable. The entire thing must have been a hoax. I just suppose I am too slow to really understand the WHY though. Would you mind explaining that to me? Is it political advantage? Why does Pakistan play along? Why did Hamas play along, for that matter?
I await your explanations. Surely you’ve more insight than I.
aziz 9:00 am on May 2, 2011 Permalink | Log in to Reply
also, David Sirota gets the critique right:
http://www.salon.com/news/osama_bin_laden/index.html?story=/politics/war_room/2011/05/02/osama_and_chants_of_usa
sage 11:29 pm on May 7, 2011 Permalink | Log in to Reply
“Your logic is impeccable. The entire thing must have been a hoax.”
No, I was saying the official story didn’t hold water, and guess what? I was right. It didn’t. There was no “surrender” option for OBL, despite what you said. He didn’t “engage” them and they didn’t “fire back” because he had no firearm on him. He was fired upon, plain and simple. But we like to accept a more comfortable narrative, one that places the U.S. on as high a moral ground as possible. We don’t like to think that this was a quick and easy execution-without-trial from a sovereign nation that plays by its own rules, so we accept the government’s initial story without question.