@altmuslim has joined @patheos, with Dilshad Ali as Editor in Chief! great news: http://blog.beliefnet.com/cityofbrass/2012/01/altmuslim-joins-patheos.html
@altmuslim has joined @patheos, with Dilshad Ali as Editor in Chief! great news: http://blog.beliefnet.com/cityofbrass/2012/01/altmuslim-joins-patheos.html
shams, 
Mc Kiernan, 
shams 6:15 am on January 28, 2012 Permalink
euwwwwwww.
alliance with the Proselytizers.
are they all maftoons like you aziz?
Aziz 10:35 am on January 28, 2012 Permalink
Yes. In fact you are the only Real MuslimTM, shams.
shams 12:45 pm on January 29, 2012 Permalink
and that is what Ghazali meant in his Hermaneutics of Reconciliation, and in the Sciences of Religion.
in a particular frame of spacetime “there can be no compulsion in religion” means shariah forbids proselytization of the poor and ignorant….to protect them.
In some future spacetime where al-Islam is not under attack by some who want to “improve” it, or indeed, replace it…(.missionariism) then anti-proselytization reflex can go out of mutawatir, stop sending…
then mufasir and trained scholars could agree that “no compulsion in religion” could become freedom of religion.
but that cant happen now. and you are not helping.
shams 12:47 pm on January 29, 2012 Permalink
sry, this comment belongs under my last comment.
your new comboxes have little hysteresis, aziz.
Aziz 10:41 am on January 28, 2012 Permalink
For the benefit of anyone wondering what “maftoon” is all about, here’s the classic discussion here at TI a while back. The granada Blog is currently as defunct and barren as their ideas.
http://talkislam.info/tag/maftoon/
shams 12:57 pm on January 29, 2012 Permalink
here s the thread that inspired the Granadas to call Aziz a maftoon.
http://talkislam.info/2009/09/25/an-effort-to-undermine-the-proponents-of/
shams 1:01 pm on January 29, 2012 Permalink
now i DO NOT believe all religions are abbrogated by the Quran. i was a raw convert and could not quote Bayazid or the Messengers passage from the Quran….
But what Sadiq says here is very similiar to Imam Ghazali’s position in his attacks on the faleysef and the Ismaelis..
Arwi 3:22 pm on January 28, 2012 Permalink
The link does not work.
shams 1:07 pm on January 29, 2012 Permalink
maftoon simply means “charmed” in arabic.
the Granadas used it imply that maftoons are charmed by western culture.
someone that believes al-Islam can be “reformed” or “improved” by hybridizing it with western culture is a maftoon imho.
aziz 7:16 pm on January 28, 2012 Permalink
yes, it was removed by Beliefnet.
shams 12:47 pm on January 29, 2012 Permalink
for what reason?
shams 12:38 pm on January 29, 2012 Permalink
i am only an egg, Aziz.
YOU introduced me to al-Islam.
But all i see from you any more is attempting to hybridize al-Islam with ideas you like from secular democracy like freedom of speech and “tolerance”.
You are a maftoon. you want to reform/improve Islam.
That is what i meant about the Miraculous Quran. The Quran is revealed, uncreated, and therefore outside time and space. Every law that will benefit humans is encoded in the Quran….but as long as there are hundreds of thousands of missionaries with guns trying to effect “regime change” in dar ul islam, the CSS of Islam is locked down in continuous transmission of defense-against-proselytization.
razib is whispering that i dont understand EGT. i understand EGT. i can even do the maths in Maynard-Smiths appendices. He cant.
al-Islam doesnt need “reform”. al-Islam is a process, and everything necessary for the process is already contained in the Wondrous Quran.
shams 1:05 pm on January 29, 2012 Permalink
reform/improve al-Islam by westernizing it.
shams 1:10 pm on January 29, 2012 Permalink
and i will say that the ummah is all humans.
all children are born muslim, right?
aziz 6:45 am on January 30, 2012 Permalink
sometimes you can be such a fool, and i say that with genuine affection. I’ve never argued for a millisecond that I want tor eform or change Islam, and I daresay that I’m far more ortodox and traditional in my practice than you are. I don’t need quantum or game theory (or translations!) to appreciate, understand, or practice my faith.
I do have a political agenda, in which I think that we can and should articulate the diversity of Islamic values to the broader audience. But change Islam? improve Islam? your’e smoking crack. You can’t show me a single example of anywhere I’ve ever advocated such a thing, because I never have. Its laughable and frankly it’s pathetic.
Until now in all or disagreements I’ve never lost respect for you- until now.
shams 1:37 pm on January 30, 2012 Permalink
you scold Islam alla time. you constantly point out honor killings, oppression of women, intolerance, blasphemy laws, without understanding why these things happen, in the evo theory of culture and biological basis of human behavior.
your values are not islamic– they are westernized. you think western values are superior to islamic values.
that is why i called you a maftoon.
aziz 1:54 pm on January 30, 2012 Permalink
bullshytt
you sound like robert spencer, as if all that has anything to do with Islam. I scold muslims, yes – because they claim to act in teh name of Islam
“evo theory” and “biological basis” – these are underpinnings of human culture – those operate bottom up, not top down. Islam is top down – the idea flows from the divine to the mortal. honor killings are tribal, flow bottom up from animal to mortal. we are the middle kingdom
my values are my values., there is not such thing as “western values” – yet more bullshytt you’ve internalized. The sad truth is you are colonized by the islamphobes, mafgoons like you and the granadans. You have internalized teh critique of the gellers and spencers
you need to move your mind furniture and stop being so REACTIVE to the phobes and so subservient to the thobes
Islam is more than any one thing – it is the summation of all we as muslims do as well as what we believe. my creitiques are of actions from within the islamic context. i invoke islam in its own defense. its hilarious and pathetic that you see this as an attack. but spencer is nodding and taking notes: “even shams agrees with me that honor killings are islamic values”
pfffftt
shams 8:21 am on January 31, 2012 Permalink
islam is a consensus religion. it is bottom up.
its like your crits of president Obama. i can make a 2×2 payoff matrix for everything he has done.
im not citing spencer and geller– im citing Arabi and Ghazali. And Maynard-Smith and Dawkins.
and the Prophet…the Prophet loved the people– he sought always to protect them.
why do you think the current consensus on quranic exegesis is this?
do you know what religion is top down? xianity. Individualism and dominion.
shams 8:25 am on January 31, 2012 Permalink
christianity is founded on social dominance order and right wing authority syndrome. where is the ten “commandments” of Islam?
like i pointed out, Islam is universalist. Jews and Christians could be citizens of the Caliphate, they just couldnt proselytize. Proselytizing is the “killer app” of xianity. Islam EVOLVED to be resistant.
shams 8:33 am on January 31, 2012 Permalink
Have you read any Ghazali at all? Sadiq’s argument is Ghazalis argument to Ibn Tamiyya on the Ismaelis and the Faylasef.
i think the Granadas are wrong about the Quran abrogating all other religions…i wish i could argue that with them now that i know more.
But it is true that the Quran contains all….so that might be a valid exegesis when Islam is under attack, as the Granadas percieve it.
you said….”i dont think the Quran forbids free speech”.
are you a mufasir or a jurist now, Aziz?
shams 8:47 am on January 31, 2012 Permalink
and honor killings are a specific mutation. like FGM. both go back to the EEA where the cuckoos egg and female infidelity were real problems.
shams 8:50 am on January 31, 2012 Permalink
“Islam is more than any one thing – it is the summation of all we as muslims do as well as what we believe.”
oh, i agree with this. but i will add….in this frame of spacetime.
like i said, al-Islam is a process. well…..like my shayyk says.
shams 8:54 am on January 31, 2012 Permalink
and always i will cite Rabi’a.
shams 9:39 am on January 31, 2012 Permalink
“you need to move your mind furniture and stop being so REACTIVE to the phobes and so subservient to the thobes”
im always redecorating. my skull furniture is in flux.
shams 9:54 am on January 31, 2012 Permalink
what happened to my comment?
testing…
Spencer is a talking dog on Islam.
shams 4:00 am on February 3, 2012 Permalink
here is the basic intransigent problem.
christians believe they have a godgiven mandate and inherent right to proselytize.
muslims believe they have a godgiven mandate and an inherent right to resist being proselytized.
both are articles of faith and not ameanable to reason.
In America, freedom of speech is part of the Rule of Law, secular law.
In majority muslim nations like Iraq, the Rule of Law is shariah law with no freedom of speech.
10 years, 4 trillion dollars, and thousands of dead american armed missionaries ago Iraq was 97% muslim.
today Iraq is still 97% muslim…maybe 98% even with xian exodus.
this is how the consent of the governed works.
Mc Kiernan 5:11 pm on February 6, 2012 Permalink
More defense against prosletyzation and consent of the governators. This really how it works.:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/02/05/ayaan-hirsi-ali-the-global-war-on-christians-in-the-muslim-world.html
shams 8:08 am on February 7, 2012 Permalink
my response.
Jews and Christians could be citizens of the Caliphate. They just couldnt proselytize.
Want to stop christian prosecution in dar ul islam?
Stop proselytizing.
The Quran forbids it.
And that means recalling the American missionaries with guns from Afghanistan.
You see….muslims dont relly care if xians wanna believe in the jesus godhead–we are all people of the book.
we do care, quite passionately as it turns out, that christians want to make us believe it too.
Shariah forbids proselytization.
“Article 10 of the Declaration states: “Islam is the religion of unspoiled nature. It is prohibited to exercise any form of compulsion on man or to exploit his poverty or ignorance in order to convert him to another religion or to atheism.”
Where shariah is the Rule of Law, christians will be persecuted for proselytizing.
Its against the law.
Their country, their laws, right?
will you change the religion of nearly two billion adherents?
Mc Kiernan 8:04 pm on February 8, 2012 Permalink
McK – you should know better than to troll a troll. But also, this is Talk Islam, so if you’re looking for somewhere to cut and paste anti-Islam polemics, you’re in the WRONG HOUSE. Leave if you don’t have enough common sense not to get baited into embarassing yourself. Understand? — Admin
shams 7:17 am on February 9, 2012 Permalink
kefaya. -admin