Bomb kills 24, wounds dozens in northwest Pakistan.
A suspected car bomb exploded outside a crowded market in northwestern Pakistan on Tuesday, killing at least 24 people in the latest attack by suspected militants apparently aimed at avenging an army offensive along the Afghan border.
The bombing, apparently aimed at causing maximum civilian casualties, was the third blast in as many days in or close to Peshawar, the capital of the North West Frontier Province, an area bordering the tribal region where the army is pushing into a key Taliban and al-Qaida sanctuary.
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johnpi
shams 10:04 am on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
They are not muslims, Johnpi….they are reavers. Men who have lost the meaning of human.
johnpi 10:07 am on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
I reject your ‘reavers’ reference completely. It’s obscure, insider lingo that makes the blog unintelligible to new readers.
shams 11:16 am on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
lol!
so Aziz’s Star Wars (scifi movie) sith lord reference is “brilliant” but my Serenity (scifi movie) reavers reference is unintelligible?
I defined them right there, Johnpi.
Men who have lost the meaning of human.
johnpi 11:17 am on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
Star Wars is not obscure.
Buzz 11:24 am on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
You two will argue about anything. You remind me of the eels from ceti alpha five.
shams 11:32 am on November 10, 2009 Permalink
hardly.
I am a (edit) bigot and Johnpi is a (edit) warrior.
shams 12:21 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
unfair…and childish.
I have admin privs too, should I chose to use them.
I am a (edit) a bigot.
Buzz 12:34 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
Shams
Here is your theme song when you battle john
This is on my list of Top 5 Most Ridiculous 80s videos.
Make sure to notice all of the myriad Warrior imagery
And the amazing warrior transformation Patty Smyth goes through at 1:53
SCARY!!! OWWWWEEEWWWWW!!!
shams 12:39 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
no thanks, i prefer more bigotry.
shams 12:44 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
(edit) I will persevere to endeavor to be melodramatic…
shams 12:48 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
edit drama
Buzz 12:53 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
How did those kids get into Abu Graib? You kids call it “Laptronica.” Its new wave, come on.
Punk/Rock still wins when you want to get the real animus up and angry. Try Wardance by Killing Joke.
After 20 years, crowds still go frickin’ NUTS when they play this song. Would have been a great nazi anthem.
null 12:54 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
I understand your frustration John, but it’s not right to delete comments like this, and it’s certainly not right to put words in shams mouth e.g. “I am a bigot” even if you put an (edit) in bracket where you have.
Shams al-Nahar 1:01 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
i dont care and i dont tear
null 1:13 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
I care. About the integrity of these boards.
johnpi 1:19 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
Fair comment.
I dont want to waste time in this either. I’ve received a message from Willow that we’re all going to have an off-site chat. Alhamdulilah for leadership.
Inshallah, we’re going to get it worked out, one way or another.
Shams al-Nahar 1:28 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
you delinked my playlist.
fascist.
johnpi 1:30 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
Nope. haven’t gone near your playlist. Keeping my email open in case you want to engage civilly off-stage.
Buzz 1:31 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
Willow is the blog psychotherapist.
Fear her!
(bad joke?)
Shams al-Nahar 1:31 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
liar
johnpi 1:32 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
Sigh…
Shams al-Nahar 1:34 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
perhaps you put it back after u got willows mail, but i got a 404 error.
Aziz said i could say what i wanted there….it was my personal space.
null 1:37 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
It was probably the ‘WECs’ who done it. *shakes fist*
Buzz 1:18 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
Seriously. John is drunk with ‘frontpager’ power.
null 1:21 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
Oooooo, jealous!
Buzz 1:23 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
It eats me alive.
razib, murtad fitri 2:22 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
i obviously relate to “johnpi”’s frustrations. but one stopgap would be to change the default comment-view on the frontpage to hidden. the flame-wars here are kind of fun to read though, but in the rubber-necking sort of way. seems like it’s changing from “talk islam” to “talk about shams.”
shams 6:38 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
well….Naila doesn’t comment here anymore since you called her a bitch and i guess I wont either.
Go back to your racist homies at SR.
shams 6:39 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
Go back to your
racist homiesfellow Ice People at SR.lol
Naila 8:00 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
Don’t flatter him — I am happy to be considered a bitch by someone who I hold in such low esteem. Considering how much this pseudo-intellectual’s words make me laugh, his calling me a bitch just made me chortle — not run from the board.
Have just way too busy to respond to stories, that’s all.
That said, if anyone is willing to do a review of Irene Khan’s (Bangladeshi, female, Muslim) book on poverty, I would be much obliged. A story on that would a, let’s see, soft, positive counter to the barrage of stories of poor oppressed Muslim women in their corpse-shrouds, aka, burquas.
Naila 8:04 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
Another reason why I have stopped responding — notice all the inane grammar mistakes in the comment of mine. Brain meet dead.
“Have just been way too busy to respond…”
“A story on that would be a, let’s see, soft…”
aziz 8:31 am on November 11, 2009 Permalink |
I wish. but te P2 theme controls that and its hardcoded in a way that I dont understand. You definitely dont me hacking this code.
they promise this capability in next release. which I am dreading because upgrading it is not trivial, since ive already hacked it somewhat to enable compatibility with wordpress MU.
anyway. suck it up
razib, murtad fitri 7:19 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
Naila doesn’t comment here anymore since you called her a bitch
nice to know i’ve achieved a mitzvot without knowing it!
johnpi 9:00 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
You were saying something about rubbernecking at someone else’s flame war?
razib, murtad fitri 9:14 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
bringing mirth to ppl’s lives is a mitzvot 2!
johnpi 9:22 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
I half to admit, I’m actually LMAO at this whole thread, in retrospect. It was aptly titled ‘The Daily Carnage…’
razib, murtad fitri 9:27 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
talkislam 90210
johnpi 9:30 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
We bring the drama…
razib, murtad fitri 9:35 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
“we”? perhaps. but i recall that “shams/matoko/jinderella” getting involved in these sorts of altercations back in her *brussels journal* fellow-traveler days. the content might have changed, but the style is the same alas (sometimes it was in my defense from what i recall against her zionist friends who accused me of being a crypto-muslim!).
johnpi 9:43 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
I fondly recall the old days – one could say the first generations of Talk Islam were the greatest – when the pretense to moderation was, like the force, strong with us.
Remember when:
“Here, keep it civil or get the boot.” Ah, those were the days…
johnpi 9:48 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
crypto-muslim
Well, you did disappear from the blog for the entire month of Ramadan, with precise timing. I was going to ask…
razib, murtad fitri 9:54 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
one could say the first generations of Talk Islam were the greatest
people who are involved with weblogs from the beginning are wont to say this. i think this is partly because as the audience/mission evolves the initiators may get “out of sync” with the thrust of a forum. TI today has a more *concrete* and less *intellectual* focus than it used to (more current events and foreign policy, less religious philosophy). that is a recipe for greater accessibility and popularity, but, it also generally results in a more “rough & tumble” atmosphere.
i generally prevent this evolution on my weblogs through “intelligent design” (censorship, bullying, a constant rain of nerdy posts). but that caps the popularity too.
johnpi 10:03 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
That’s a good insight. My tendency is obviously very strongly toward the newsy/concrete – and in fact, if you look at my blog before participation TI, I was nearly invisible. So the TI experience has certainly drawn me out quite a bit.
And your comment about TI evolving reminds me of a class I took on strategic planning for nonprofits – probably works for any business though.
An organization (blog) sets out to do something, but then over time what it does shifts and evolves. Sometimes what an organization says it does and what it actually provides are very different.
johnpi 10:05 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
Another observation: A small blog – like any small published entity – can change quite a bit because there are often only a few people around. Someone comes through and burns like a light through the place and then when that person moves on it radically alters the org…
razib, murtad fitri 10:08 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
Someone comes through and burns like a light through the place and then when that person moves on it’s radically alters the org…
exactly. positive feedback loops too, since the people who leave comments are a small minority. the type of comments people receive also affects what/who posts.
johnpi 10:10 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
A good example of the previous the blog Open Left. I love that place but a lot of its grip on me was lost when one of the two founding bloggers – Matt Stoller – quit.
Stoller’s blogging was very motivating – and I say that even though I would also say I concluded from interacting with him that he’s a f***ing prick….
razib, murtad fitri 10:11 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
and yet you say all this as the dominant front page contributor now.
johnpi 10:29 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
dominant front page contributor
That’s a dubious, uncertain accomplishment though.
I’ve queried Aziz on amount of contribution and he’s affirmed his strong ideological commitment to absolutely not putting any sort of a boundary on the participation by giving feedback. As I realize from the lack of effort to contain the antics here today, there’s really nothing to read between the lines there because he is a strident ideologue about laizzez faire on the blog.
It’s like I was taught in 7th grade economics: the basic building blocks of a business are land, labor, capital and managerial ability. The ideological commitment to laizzez faire makes me keenly feel the absence of the last…
johnpi 10:35 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
And next week, I may be ‘in courtship’/find a girlfriend and I won’t have time for the computer… or the week after that, or the week after that… and them this place will look different again…
razib, murtad fitri 10:36 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
well, i told shams not to comment on my posts and she honored that. probably the main reason i stopped commenting is simply the comment feedback wasn’t what it used to be though (there are several interesting books i ended up reading through recommendations from TI readers). generally my own assessment was that this forum was no longer as much a conversation about islam & religion as it was a conversation between muslims. probably an inevitable development as the blog got more popular.
johnpi 10:45 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
I disagree on both counts.
1) Conversation between Muslims: My major point of contention with S. above was that she vowed to abuse non-Muslims off the blog with ambushes/name calling. So I’m certainly holding out for broader participation/readership, despite the insider Muslim ’shop talk’ if you will.
2) By readership numbers, TI is still just a pebble in the blogosphere pond – though sizable by Muslim blog standards. We could have a lot more participation….
razib, murtad fitri 10:50 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
My major point of contention with S. above was that she vowed to abuse non-Muslims off the blog with ambushes/name calling.
i think the technical term is “memetic warfare”
johnpi 11:17 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink
shams 12:36 am on November 11, 2009 Permalink
Oh….would that be your co-blogger Diana Moon’s slur on al-Ghazali or your personal paen to Ayan Hirsi Ali? Or perhaps whackadoodle Derbyshires Ice ppl vs Sun ppl?
lulz
razib, murtad fitri 1:04 am on November 11, 2009 Permalink
medication time….
shams 6:46 am on November 11, 2009 Permalink
(edit) More bigotry
aziz 8:21 am on November 11, 2009 Permalink
I’ve queried Aziz on amount of contribution and he’s affirmed his strong ideological commitment to absolutely not putting any sort of a boundary on the participation by giving feedback. As I realize from the lack of effort to contain the antics here today,…he is a strident ideologue about laizzez faire on the blog.
admittedly I am more conservative than others here. But i (reasonably) expect adults to act like adults. On both sides of a personal conflict. The admin post that just went up makes my position clear.
You have authority to edit your own threads – and you have. I strongly disagree with your choices, and frankly I hold you in equal blame as shams for failing to
whining about the lack of managerial ability is an attempt to dodge the responsibility you have to police your own threads, in a fair manner. There are other comments on your own threads that you could have edited, but they remain.
Again, im just telling you my opinion, but the responsibility for your threads is your own. But if you choose to wield your moderation power against only people you’ve personality conflicts with, instead of according to an objective standard, then its not my managerial ability thats being called into question.
I simply cannot police this entire site. The frontpage is the domain of all as equals; the duties of maintianing civility likewise fall to all as equals.
aziz 8:23 am on November 11, 2009 Permalink
razib,
generally my own assessment was that this forum was no longer as much a conversation about islam & religion as it was a conversation between muslims. probably an inevitable development as the blog got more popular.
its always been about both. and rightly so. I dont think there are any conversations here that arent of interest to muslims and non muslims alike. Even the “inside baseball” stuff is relevant I think to the broader world – otherwse Bill Allison wouldnt have found such a huge audience for his landmark blog series on Qutb.
aziz 8:27 am on November 11, 2009 Permalink
“Here, keep it civil or get the boot.” Ah, those were the days…
you provided the context for the quote but then failed to acknowledge it! we were specifically referring to Shi’a bullying and takfir. Those were the poison pills that killed other muslim forums and we intended and still intend to make sure we dont get bogged down teh same way. This is Talk ISlam, not just Talk Sunni or Talk Salafi.
there was never an expectation that we could vigorously police all comments to keep everyone civil and polite. Some rough and tumble is necessary for healthy debate. Frankly, if shams crossed a line therein, so too did you by further provocation. Again, i remind you – whats the first rule of dealing with a troll? the answer takes discipline. I didnt see you demonstrate the restraint you demand of others in this sordid mess.
johnpi 9:41 am on November 11, 2009 Permalink
Thanks for the response Aziz.
I would respond that you are choosing to not take sides – ostensibly the high ground – but thereby also choosing not to examine or acknowledge the significance of Shams vowing to bully a whole group of people who read the blog, doing the same to me (unrelated to any issue under discussion on the blog), and then randomly taking after Razib in the same way when he showed up here.
I maintain that using admin privileges to stop this behavior is proper, just and appropriate.
Advising resolute pacifism in the face of resolute aggression is not a sufficient response. Ignoring a troll doesn’t mitigate the issue of a provocateur engaging in baiting, name-calling and random broadsides across the blog ad infinitum when bored or when she gets a whim for it. And the fact that this person has self-appointed herself the role of attacking other blog readers (WECs and non-Muslims) for the stated purpose of driving them off the blog with expressions of malice and prejudice weighs hugely in (what has now become) my resolve to oppose her participation.
As you know, the admins (you and Willow) have prompted a conversation among the four of us offline and last I checked, she refuses to engage there off the ’stage’ of the blog to resolve differences, which counts in my appraisal as further evidence her intent is to misuse the blog for personal entertainment in conflict, rather than try to resolve this out of the limelight.
I admire your huge commitment of time, energy and blogging to keep both Shams and I in the fold as a kind of almost radical expression of total community, but she’s actually working at direct cross-purposes to – and is going to cause a lot of damage to – the values of community with this conduct.
Anyway, I’d much rather be blogging…
Dan 10:07 pm on November 10, 2009 Permalink |
Razib and Naila should just meet up in person at a boxing ring and finish it off once and for all.