Serial Killer - Christian
Did anyone ask what role religion played in this man’s murder spree? Dennis Rader bound, tortured and killed his victims while pleasuring himself sexually.
He worked closely with police forces, wore a badge, cited citizens for compliance issues with pets, etc., he was a scout master with the boy scouts and was president of his Church congregation where he attended weekly. He was actually captured on evidence found on his church’s computer.
Did anyone ask how his Christian beliefs played into his crimes?
None that I can remember. Muslims owe the same explanation with Hassan. None.
razib, murtad fitri 7:23 pm on November 6, 2009 Permalink |
your argument would be more persuasive if the dude didn’t reportedly shout “god is great” in arabic as he was killing (might already have been falsified, don’t know). clearly most muslims aren’t crazy psychos like this guy. the argument would be that some form of islam channeled his psychosis and allowed him to justify it.
Buzz 7:37 pm on November 6, 2009 Permalink |
You don’t go to church weekly to ignore it. I don’t think it matters whether Allahu Akbar! is yelled or whether demon dogs tell you to do it. If you practice a religion, than it should affect your decision, right?
Or not?
razib, murtad fitri 8:02 pm on November 6, 2009 Permalink |
If you practice a religion, than it should affect your decision, right?
you’re leaving a lot of variables free. what religion? what religion?
let’s use what i think might be an OK analog. scott roeder, who killed george tiller, was known to peruse extremist anti-abortion literature which was partly rooted in extreme forms of christianity. most traditionalist catholics and fundamentalist reformed calvinists would not murder abortion doctors because they’re not psychotic. but when you combine a psychotic with a specific political-religious program it channels their psychosis, right?
muslims have a lot to be angry about in regards to the american gov. & the american military. i implied that earlier when i noted the “foreign entanglements” issue of any group. a lot of political, social and religiously justified violence isn’t due to psychosis, it’s a rational response to asymmetries of power, etc. but, when people who aren’t mentally right seem particular models to behave out there then it seems plausible that they’d follow those models and justify their own behavior in that way.
as for the specific case of nidal hassan, the guy seems to have been a weirdo in so many ways. it is probably right that islam as such has no great predictive power as to this sort of behavior. if he was a calvinist christian of conservative inclinations he’d probably do what roeder did and target abortion doctors or something like that. if he was raised in a more left-wing milieu, he might have behaved like the red army brigage or the symbionese liberation army.
as for what muslims have to answer for, i think that’s a complicated issue. one can’t control or account for mental illness among notional co-religionists. or, co-politicalists, or co-nationalists. but i do believe that adherence to a group identity means that you can’t necessary always wash your hands clean of the actions of those who claim your identity. i believe this as an american, whose gov. has done a lot of nasty. and i believe that conservative christians and left-wing marxists who have laid the ideological framework for the nuts who utilize their arguments also have to account for the damage done in their name.
razib, murtad fitri 8:03 pm on November 6, 2009 Permalink |
what religion? what religion?
#2 is “what decision.”
Buzz 8:15 pm on November 6, 2009 Permalink |
We don’t know why Roeder, Rader or Hassan practiced religion. Some are completely devoted or obssessed. Others go for community, or a sense of belonging or closeness, lost familial or national ties, and so many other reasons.
Allahu Akbar! means lots of stuff to lots of people. I can suggest to you that rarely does a real religious scholar and devotee yell this except quietly at their prayers.
When someone yells Allahu Akbar, it means they may very well be from a middle eastern culture. Period.
“Allah” is so wound up in these cultures that dozens of common expressions are attached to Allah. Maash Allah. Allah Hafiz. Ya Allah. And so on.
Even atheists will use some of these expressions, they are so common.
You have to be a mind reader or a confidante of Hassan to know what he did and why. Maybe he will say, if they keep him alive.
One thing is clear. Islam is free of it. No question. The question is why is it a question. No one question religion with Rader.
People should really ask themselves if they think clearly and objectively.
Even atheists in the middle east will use some o
razib, murtad fitri 8:36 pm on November 6, 2009 Permalink
One thing is clear. Islam is free of it. No question. The question is why is it a question. No one question religion with Rader.
well, that’s not really true. left-wing blogs did question the association with religion because a lot of anti-abortion activists justify their behavior based on religion.
razib, murtad fitri 8:12 pm on November 6, 2009 Permalink |
and let me make something clear: i do believe religion has political implications.* see st. patrick’s battalion, irish catholics who switched from the american to the mexican side. if the united states ever decided to go to war on israel then the jewish soldiers would be in a really difficult situation. i suspect that those who aren’t too religious would pick their american identity/loyalty, and those who are more religious wouldn’t. i’ve talked to religious jews (not orthodox, but conservative) who freely admit that they would pick israel over the united states.
* ethnicity, language, even class. during the american revolutionary war whigs, dissenters and the middle and lower classes were extremely averse to the violent suppression of colonial demands, while tories, anglicans and the upper classes stood with george iii.
Buzz 8:24 pm on November 6, 2009 Permalink |
It depends whether you mean political religion or religion religion. Obviously, crusades and myriad wars have been fought in the name of “god.”
These are the politicians who use religion to amass the ranks and concentrate their hate and resolution.
As an atheists, I understand you might not see beyond that. To you, maybe religion is all idols. But I believe there is a real God and a religious reality and a righteous path beyond the relative.
That is a different thread.
razib, murtad fitri 8:41 pm on November 6, 2009 Permalink |
buzz, right. let’s just say that the issue here is tribalism. i think this is in a different category than najibullah zazi even though this is realized.
shams 9:43 am on November 7, 2009 Permalink |
Muslims have nothing to answer for until Big White Christian Bwana acknowledges the root causes of muslim anger. That is whole problem with WECs……they came to MENA, starting with the British Raj, and raped, stole. killed. destroyed cultures and societies, but they never have to say sorry….or say they were WRONG, because they were doin it for the good of the poor primitive savages, because they love the little black/brown/yellow people soooooooooo much.
Meddling Big White Christian Bwana turned MENA into a reaver factory and now they are pissing and moaning about “why do they hate us?”
Try; the Raj, colonialism, missionariism, Operation Ajax, the Tyrant Shah, Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, the heartless post-WWII partition of MENA states into forever warring tribal sects……
Until the WECs accept responsibility for their actions the reaver factory will never run out of parts.