Count me as extremely skeptical of the “Islam on the Hill” mass jumah prayer. It sends all the wrong messages at the wrong time.
Islam News @ NYT- A Dispute on Using the Koran as a Path to Jesus: “The Camel Method” for preaching to Muslims has prompted controversy among Southern Baptists.
- Clearer Limits Sought in Malaysia for Shariah Courts' Role: Lawyers and religious minorities have called for a clearer divide between Malaysia’s secular and religious courts.
- Pilgrim Non Grata in Mecca: After no journey to Mecca, learning about Islam from a seat in Washington.
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johnpi 12:16 pm on September 18, 2009 Permalink |
Precisely. This event is taking place in the heart of the American political universe and is therefore a political act, yet the commentary on their website seems entirely self-involved in the Muslim community and oblivious to the need for ‘message control’ to the larger American community.
The fact that their message is so unfocused and vague leaves it open for irresponsible anti-Muslim elements to come in and hijack this event for Islamophobic propaganda.
The question about who the speakers are and what their message will be weighs large too, as demonstrated in a bad experience I had when I was younger and more naive. I was invited to attend a political demonstration where speakers were put up on stage for other issues than what the crowd had gathered for – with the effect that it made it seem like there was a lot more support for those issues than there actually was. I felt angry and used, and it turned me off political participation for awhile. If something were to play out with this event in that way, it would likely have a lasting deleterious effect on attending Muslims – right when we need Muslims to be more engaged, not less.
This event is wide open for the same kind of abuse. Of course it’s their right as Americans to engage in whatever speech they want, but its also my right to recommend other Muslims should stay away.
razib, murtad fitri 4:50 pm on September 18, 2009 Permalink |
i think aziz’s pragmatic assessment is generally right. i would also add that though many secular people accept the right and operational ubiquity in the united states of displays of public religiosity, even with connections to public policy (e.g., “prayer breakfasts”), they tend to find them ostentatious and the general emotive reaction is irritation. the polling data show that secular americans are the least hostile to muslims, perceiving them as another minority. as a practical matter the more any religious group resembles the religious right in their public operation the more suspicion that’s going to elicit from secular americans (i.e., large public shows of religious faith aimed at display and witness). in other words, the demographic landscape is obviously way more complex that islamophobic vs. non-islamophobic (though to be honest i have a really hard time what islamophobic means in the context it is used on this weblog it seems so copiously and broadly uttered), and the way groups present themselves can have complex reprecussions. and alliances changed. in the 1950s jews broke from their traditional alliance with catholics as part of the “white ethnic” cultural block to join the side of secularized WASPs who were suspicious of the influence of the church on american social policy.
eliza 7:57 am on September 19, 2009 Permalink |
At the end of this service are they all going to jump up and down and yell “Death! Death! Death to Israel/the West/ other people on our hitlist! Kill, kill, kill, that sort of thing?
pi.info 8:31 am on September 19, 2009 Permalink |
Eliza – your excretable attempts at provocation are becoming deletable. If you’re going to use the forum to attack the other readers/participants, it’s by definition troll behavior.
Here’s a link to a story on another Internet publication by the editor who describes the process of figuring out if one of his commenters was a troll. The troll eventually self-selects to leave, but if you read the comments the last one is from the editor with an update announcing he had to ban the troll.
Here’s the troll description from the article:
eliza 9:25 am on September 19, 2009 Permalink |
I consider this proposed DC meeting to be a provocation.
I never attack people personally or their beliefs. They can call me names, they can believe anything they wish. Nor do I expect anyone to reply to me. I would probably be set on fire in a muslim country.
Buzz 11:17 am on September 19, 2009 Permalink |
Get over yourself.
pi.info 9:35 am on September 19, 2009 Permalink |
I consider this proposed DC meeting to be a provocation.
Your personal response is interesting and a worthwhile contribution to the discussion. It raises the question of how various subsets of the US population are going to respond to this.
eliza 9:41 am on September 19, 2009 Permalink |
If you do not wish to see a dissenting opinion or a teasing remark, so be it. I hope that in the future it will be said that all of us, bloggers and commenters alike, in the clash of our various views, helped to make a better world.
Anyway, not to worry. As I said, I only harrass muslims in my spare time; I am pretty much out of that. Believe it or not, many westerners feel harrassed and provoked by muslims.
Buzz 10:51 am on September 19, 2009 Permalink |
You’re not adding anything for the most part. You are just taking bigoted pot shots. Dissent is different from harassment. Gotta agree with John on this one. You are rapidly entering troll territory.
And a troll is a very ugly thing, regardless of their politics or religious views.
Buzz 10:56 am on September 19, 2009 Permalink |
You can attribute As-Sabur, one of the Beautiful Names of Allah to the patience and politeness you’ve received.
Let me know when you are ready to do yourself a favor and convert. I can recommend some people.
eliza 5:08 pm on September 19, 2009 Permalink |
Recently a Saudi person stated something like, “maybe we shouldn’t call for the destruction of others at the end of our services.” I don’t believe he would have said that without the protests on the internet. Possibly he saw a sarcastic remark on the subject.
I read that the gov. sporadically arrests and whips women for trouser wearing in Sudan to pacify islamists. Surely the trouser lady benefited from website racket.
Some are trying to get the blasphemy law repealed in Pakistan. Surely websites contributed to this effort.
Even sites that you may laugh at, like persecution.org or Spencer’s harangues, have I believe worked for positive change. These things may be unpleasant but they break through the fog of delusion that religion, any religion, can through over its adherents.
Buzz 8:24 pm on September 19, 2009 Permalink |
Yes, you and spencer have raised many important issues. Thank you for reminding me about the trousers case. That helps so much. And with that gratitude, I turn my back on you. Goodbye Eliza. I hope you are not as dull company to your friends and family as I found you. Good bye.