Svend, you are wasting your time.
Islam News @ NYT- Swedish Artist Says Sketch of Prophet Aimed to Mock All Religions: A man who prosecutors say was the target of a murder plot says his caricature of the Prophet Muhammad was intended to poke fun at all sacred symbols.
- Nigerians Recount Night of Their Bloody Revenge: This week dozens of herdsmen slaughtered hundreds of people in a brutal act of sectarian retribution in Jos.
- Pilgrim Non Grata in Mecca: After no journey to Mecca, learning about Islam from a seat in Washington.
-
Would you like your own blog hosted at Talk Islam? Email the admin at "salaam at talk islam dot info" !
Talk Islam uses Wordpress MU and the Prologue theme by Automattic
DISCLAIMER: Please see the About Talk Islam page for fair use issues and our privacy policy.
DONATE: Talk Islam needs your support!
thabet 1:07 pm on July 14, 2009 Permalink |
Heh. I was going to leave a comment at his blog with the same view.
plimfix 1:23 pm on July 14, 2009 Permalink |
I disagree. This kind of thing should be said, and said more often. I personally cannot stomach visiting right wing blogs. They actually make me feel physically ill. All power to those who can, and who make an effort to answer them.
Willow 1:47 pm on July 14, 2009 Permalink |
I agree with Thabet and Aziz. Some people do not deserve the compliment of rational opposition.
svend 3:01 pm on July 14, 2009 Permalink |
An understandable reaction, but then you make it that much easier for them to reduce you to their preferred stereotype.
aziz 3:25 pm on July 14, 2009 Permalink |
Svend, I’ve engaged in him myself often – in blog, in private email, everything. In teh end you are reduced to their stereotype anyway. Its no easier or harder to do to you because you did or didnt write thousands of words in rebuttal; your words are not read, yoru arguments are not digested, they are just fodder for rounds 2, 3, … N. Its not just me, there are many others here at TI who have tried to engage his sort and found teh exact same conclusion. Its tempting and even a bit ego-boosting to think you might be the one to reason with him but ultimately youre just playing into his hands. Starvation is the only solution.
plimfix 3:49 am on July 15, 2009 Permalink |
I take you point, Willow, in respect of issues like creationism vs evolution – and indeed, that is the view taken by Dawkins, and rightly so IMHO. Creationism’s claim to have scientific validity via ‘Intelligent Design’ is akin to arguing in favour of the tooth fairy. I’m not sure I would extend that same argument to this context. This is not a rational debate in the same way as the aforementioned one. We are talking about different issues which, like it or not, do not rest on such firm and shakey foundations as Darwin vs Dum Dum.
svend 2:56 pm on July 14, 2009 Permalink |
Time waste or not, you sort of have to respond when you’ve talked so much trash. My plan wasn’t to engage Spencer. I just weighed in in the discussion on the protest blog because there weren’t many Muslims contributing anything beyond whining, got stuck in debates and next thing you know I’d attracted his attention. Anyone who reads the comments on JW can have no illusions about much of that crowd’s openness to reason on Islam, much less its ringleaders, but there are presumably less doctrinaire lurkers there who might be shown that we’re not the caricatures Spencer makes us out to be.
Safia 3:08 pm on July 14, 2009 Permalink |
It’s not a time waste, thank you for your effort. Clearly it’s not for Spencer but others who might happen along.
bingregory 8:26 pm on July 14, 2009 Permalink |
This is very true. The people who actively comment are a small fraction of the people who will read the discussion. Write for the lurkers.
johnpi 8:44 pm on July 14, 2009 Permalink |
Agree with Safia and bingregory regarding lurkers…
He’s not going to be “starved” by lack of response, he’s going to successfully define you. He and his ilk will frame the conversation and make you argue in his frames, and create the standards that third parties apply to you.
Spencer is going to say the same thing again and again, and so should we with our own points. Overcoming propaganda and hate-mongering is going to be a long war of attrition…if you’re tired of it that’s fine, but don’t undermine the energy of others who aren’t exhausted yet…
Shams al-Nahar 5:47 pm on July 14, 2009 Permalink |
If you engage him, Svend, he will eventually run away.
My dream is to create a scholarship fund for him, and send him to Al Ahazar to debate with real islamic scholars!
Hopefully some real islamic scholars in the Muslim Brotherhood.
Shams al-Nahar 6:06 pm on July 14, 2009 Permalink |
my speeling.
Al Azhar.
Buzz Kill 6:40 pm on July 14, 2009 Permalink |
That is a funny idea: a scholarship fund for i-Robart.
but I don’t think Al-Azhar is the destination. Too credible. He thinks all muslims are terrorists. Send him to radicalized madrassa so atleast he will know what the hell he is talking about.
If we all write a letter of recommendation, do you think he can get into Jihad University?
Shams al-Nahar 6:49 pm on July 14, 2009 Permalink |
I guess that is the right place…his exegesis is all fundie/jihaadi anyways.
He’d be right at home.
Buzz Kill 6:55 pm on July 14, 2009 Permalink |
I have to agree with the don’t engage people strictly on grounds of lost energy. He is a charter member of Bani Bozos, a real evil hate clown who even gets center ring at the Circus on occassion.
null 12:04 am on July 15, 2009 Permalink |
It’s exhausting, and I honestly believe the JW crowd is beyond reason, but I appreciate the time Svend has taken to say these things.