Umar wants to address the problems with masculinity that he believes white converts from secular, educated backgrounds bring into the Muslim community with them, such as interest in sado-masochism and the inability to be a strong male leaders to their families. Reports that desi women are rejecting men of their ethnicity for lack of masculinity too.
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razib 10:32 am on July 5, 2009 Permalink |
Reports that desi women are rejecting men of their ethnicity for lack of masculinity too.
no. this is an urban myth that comes up on the *sepia mutiny* weblog. US census data show that south asians have balanced outmarriage sex ratios. the reference to S&M is pretty f**king funny.
razib 10:55 am on July 5, 2009 Permalink |
re: brownz, could be that only muslim brownz are wimps. small enough part of the american brown community that they might not show up well in the census data.
Sabir 2:13 pm on July 5, 2009 Permalink |
I have had many Desi sisters tell me that they cant think of marrying a Desi male because they cant find one masculine enough.
For the life of me, I do not understand where this “Desi men are weak and passive” stereotype comes from. Not only does this perception have no basis whatsoever, anecdotal data would seem to point in the opposite direction (the constant violence and instability in Pakistan, the prevalence of conservative religious values amongst Pakistanis, the Taliban, Pakistani street gangs in Britain, etc). I’m South Asian and I never experienced anything of this nature growing up, and I was never even aware that this stereotype existed until recently. Could someone please enlighten me? Am I the only one who doesn’t see it?
razib 2:30 pm on July 5, 2009 Permalink |
i’m pretty sure that losers who women don’t want to date are spreading the meme. the issue is that if you have an excuse which is due to your group identity you will want to play that up as opposed to some individual attributes. for example, i’ve known of asian american guys who complain about the emasculization of asian american males in the media, but if these individuals were white they would have to admit that the reality is that they are nerds with poor hygiene and that is a big part of the problem.
this is not to say that there aren’t real group related issues out there. but many people use them to ignore their own personal deficits.
Sabir 3:42 pm on July 5, 2009 Permalink |
i’m pretty sure that losers who women don’t want to date are spreading the meme.
Or, in the example Umar cited, women no one wants to marry.
thabet 9:56 pm on July 5, 2009 Permalink |
Isn’t this a stereotype of American desis?
Sabir 10:47 pm on July 5, 2009 Permalink |
I’ve heard people try to justify the stereotype by generalizing about South Asians as a whole: that their gene pool makes them physically scrawny and not athletically inclined (not true) or that there’s something emasculating about South Asian culture in general (not really).
thabet 11:32 pm on July 5, 2009 Permalink
To be fair it is not just American desis, though I have heard people mention this more. One reason cited for the lack of British Asians in football (“soccer”) is their lack of physique.
Sabir 10:59 am on July 6, 2009 Permalink
I think the arguments noting that South Asian parents place a heavy emphasis on education and thereby often steer their youth away from participating in sports have some merit, but not the blather about South Asians’ physique. After all, many of the Desis who have pursued careers in sports have done reasonably well (Amir Khan the boxer, Sajid Mahmood and a handful of other cricketers, Ibrahim Khan the CFL player, Gibran Hamdan the NFL quarterback, etc). With respect to soccer (“football”
), I think there’s also something to be said for the fact that soccer is a second-tier sport in the subcontinent and doesn’t generate the level of interest amongst British Desis that cricket does.
thabet 12:26 am on July 7, 2009 Permalink
There’s a few Asians in the England cricket team now: Adil Rashid, Ravi Bopara, Owais Shah come to mind. Monty Panesar (complete with his religious headdress), Nasser Hussain (born in Madras but of mixed Indian+English origin) and Mark Ramprakash (same as Hussain) have been here before. (I feel sorry for Ramprakash — good batsman who was only ever called into the England team when they were struggling; thus, finding found his own form under pressure).
And as much I would have loved Big Saj (who defies the ’scrawny’ stereotype) to made it to the top, he bowls a couple of decent balls in an over, only to gift the batsmen two or three long hops.
In boxing, there is also Akash Bhatia (Sikh), but Amir gets a lot of attention because his is also Muslim. Lots of Asians compete in combat sports.
Nope. Not in my experience, nor the numbers (can’t find anything, but I am sure I have read something about popularity of football amongst 2nd gen Asians). British Desis are as fanatical about football as anyone else in the British Isles. Some of it is definitely cultural (parental pressure, etc), but there is also long standing racism.
The highest profile Asian players are probably Zesh Rahman (who did play in the Premier League) who now plays for Pakistan in international competitions, Michael Chopra (who still plays in the top flight) and Netan Sansara who is the first Asian to play for England U18.
razib 11:55 pm on July 5, 2009 Permalink |
the american aspect is important. in vancouver brownz are perceived to be nasty thugz. even my liberal PC friends will admit that they profiled the punjabi thoughts and gave them a wide berth.
razib 11:55 pm on July 5, 2009 Permalink
thoughts = toughs
Buzz Kill 1:23 pm on July 5, 2009 Permalink |
Umar is a freakin nutcase who looks at Islam as a talisman to address his short-comings and outsider status in American society. Boo hoo Umar. Wait for the American Caliphate and then you will get your pay-back on the wild white hordes. Loser.
Counter-racism. Allahu Akbar!
razib 1:30 pm on July 5, 2009 Permalink |
i only read that d00d’s blog when linked to from here, so perhaps a skewed perspective, but i gotta say he’s entertaining. i would like to read his fantasy novels where i’m sure there will be a lot of muslim-on-kuffar smackdowns and the protagonist will bear an resemblance to him
Buzz Kill 1:36 pm on July 5, 2009 Permalink |
Agreed. To me, in my own skewed white view, he is a window to the urban American-Muslim discontent. I see through his eyes all of the frustrations of being poor, working class and second-hand Muslim.
In fact, my opinion, is that these are people who are frustrated between a White America they can never see themselves fully participating in and a sanctuary Islam where they are still second class citizens.
He has an active imagination. Should be a great novel writer.
plimfix 11:23 pm on July 5, 2009 Permalink |
The effeminate Asian was an oft invoked stereotype during the colonial era. And if you read the gender studies research (Maculinities is a specialist area), I think you’ll find that what Umar is really referring to hypermasculinity – a gender performance associated with persecuted minorities, religious fundamentalism, and Nazis.
thabet 11:35 pm on July 5, 2009 Permalink |
It is always funny (on several fronts) when digging into contemporary prejudice leads us back to the colonial era.
You’ve just provided Umar with more ammunition against white converts who ponce about with their fancy academic reading lists
razib 12:28 am on July 6, 2009 Permalink |
here’s an awesome idea for umar. he should try to set up a white muslim convert meet-up for “dialogue.” when he gets there he starts beating the sh*t out of all the other f**king pu**y-muzzies and takes cell phone pictures of their battered faces to show everyone what a hardcore thug he is.
Buzz Kill 11:09 am on July 6, 2009 Permalink |
LOL
Buzz Kill 11:10 am on July 6, 2009 Permalink
Sounds like an event. Umar Lee’s MMA Cracker Muzzie Smack Down!
Buzz Kill 11:11 am on July 6, 2009 Permalink
BTW: What race is this guy? His parents look white to me. Latinos?
razib 12:19 pm on July 6, 2009 Permalink
i think he is white by birth, colored by choice
Buzz Kill 12:42 pm on July 6, 2009 Permalink
The Vanilla Ice of Hip Hop Islam.
bingregory 11:59 pm on July 5, 2009 Permalink |
To Ponce: Brit. & Aus. to act stupidly or waste time; to act in an effeminate manner.
Is that about right? I know I can’t be the only one wondering…
thabet 8:22 am on July 6, 2009 Permalink |
Yep.
mirele 10:55 am on July 6, 2009 Permalink |
I have to wonder if Umar wants to go back to the days when the “little woman” was supposed to be silent in the presence of men, was dependent upon her husband for money and shelter, was always sexually available and made a good punching bag for the frustrations of her husband. If that’s what he expects masculinity to be about, then yeah, women are going to say “I don’t need that” and move along. I would.
Willow 12:14 pm on July 6, 2009 Permalink |
Good lord peeples.
plimfix 1:29 pm on July 6, 2009 Permalink |
ROFLOL