Christina Patterson, a columnist with The Independent, writes an article about Iran:
This is silly. Christianity was ‘imported’ into Europe, but it would be a bit stupid to say something called ‘Christianity’ had nothing do with how Europeans thought and acted for hundreds of years. A dozen other ideas, beliefs, religions, etc can be said to have been ‘exported’ or ‘imported’ around the world — this comes with conquest, empires, and the movement of people. I don’t see anything remarkable about this.
There is too much available in print and on the web about the relationship between ‘Islam’ and ‘Iran’. Even someone regarded as ‘anti-Islam’ has noted this relationship. I will only note that a lot of scholars (of whatever subject and whatever theological or sectarian persuasion) we talk about today, whether they are ‘orthodox’ like Al-Ghazali or ‘heterodox’ like Ibn Sina, were of Iranian origin.
Patterson should have stuck to attacking the political aspects of the contemporary Iranian state (the ugly, oppressive, mixing of religion and state), rather than trying to make some sort of profound historical-cultural argument which makes no sense. (And why is Patterson anymore a judge of ‘piety’ than the Iranian state?)
She ends her article with a quote from Jalaluddin Rumi. Maybe Patterson is too lazy to check her sources, but Rumi was, and is regarded as, an orthodox Sunni. (I will side step the arguments between Iranians and Turks to claim Rumi’s legacy!)

Willow 12:29 pm on May 17, 2009 Permalink |
Looks like garden variety orientalism to me. All events in the ME require a long digression about ancient history. Anything to avoid confronting the actual living issues of actual living people.
thabet 1:52 pm on May 17, 2009 Permalink |
Even if you want to make a digression about ancient history do so with some basic facts and understanding.
aziz 9:30 am on May 18, 2009 Permalink |
which reminds me, we need a way to add a “thumbs up/Liked This!” button to individual comments. there needs to be some way to highlight the awesome.
Dan 8:53 pm on May 17, 2009 Permalink |
Islam is as much of an integral part of Iran just like how Orthodox Christianity is an integral part of Greece, in spite of the fact that Christianity was forced upon the Greeks.
bingregory 9:16 pm on May 17, 2009 Permalink |
What is it about Iran that makes it the only place where this idea of Islam as a foreign, Arab, imposition always crops up? I never hear this kind of critique coming out of India or Africa or SE Asia, but it seems to have some degree of traction amongst the Iranian elite.
razib 9:36 pm on May 17, 2009 Permalink |
persians are racist against arabs.
bingregory 12:20 am on May 18, 2009 Permalink |
Oh. And here I was waiting for a long digression about ancient history.
razib 12:28 am on May 18, 2009 Permalink |
indians and africans are dark-skinned. arabs are white compared to them, and so they would rather be like arabs (i.e., claim fake arab ancestry and stuff). persians are “aryans” and so feel superior to the arab. yes, there’s plenty of embarrassment over the fact that a bunch of uncultured desert arabs wiped the floor with persia during the 7th century conflict. i also personally believe the fact that iranians are fervent believers in a religion invented by arabs, who they look down on, is embarrassing to them. not to mention that a lot of their lexicon and writing system is of arab origin.
so the schizophrenic identity results in these sorts of bizarre outbursts. if a large number (parity) of iranians were zoroastrians, i wouldn’t be surprised muslim iranians boasted about their arab ancestry, just like muslim south asians tend to emphasize their sliver of non-south asian ancestry, as a way to distinguish themselves from the kufar.
aziz 9:35 am on May 18, 2009 Permalink
people who lack imagination often answer, “kill Hitler as a child” when asked what they’d do with a time machine. Me, I’d go back to around 150kya and use my Magic DNA marker to erase gene slc24a5 from the population.
Dan 11:59 pm on May 17, 2009 Permalink |
From my experience, “Persians” (I don’t know why they call themselves as such when people from Zimbabwe don’t refer to themselves as Rhodesians) need to get over the past and move on. Do you see any Greeks other than Hellenic pagans whinging over the loss of ancient Greece to Christianity?
The only ones who propagate such a notion that Islam is alien to Iran are the bastard children of fascist dictators that reside in ‘Tehrangeles’. The scum who had no shame in fleeing the country with their stolen booty and they try so hard to make themselves look pro-Western. They are, in my opinion, no different from the Cuban scum that love Batista in Miami.
razib 12:37 am on May 18, 2009 Permalink |
Do you see any Greeks other than Hellenic pagans whinging over the loss of ancient Greece to Christianity?
yes. their numbers are not numerous and they are not culturally influential, but they exist. but the analogy is weak: greeks take pride in the fact that their christian orthodoxy is strongly imbued with the philosophy ancient greece. the christian message speaks in the tongue of the pagan greeks. the new testament (and the variant of the hebrew bible from which the old testament is derived) was originally in greek. persian pre-islamic intellectual culture has a much weaker primary role in islam (though persian culture had more of an influence in terms of political role models).
The only ones who propagate such a notion that Islam is alien to Iran are the bastard children of fascist dictators that reside in ‘Tehrangeles’.
the ambivalence to islam is evident as far back as ferdowsi.
the analogy to cuba is dumb. there are plenty of bahai and jewish persians (a disproportionate number of the iranian american community) who might have escaped with their money, but they had some non-material reasons to flee.
cbarwa 6:09 pm on May 18, 2009 Permalink |
well Persians are right next to Arabs that always leads to tensions; India and SE countries aren’t. The Muslim community in India has its own internal differentiations and tensions but most of the conqueror groups weren’t Arabs but central asians.
razib 9:36 pm on May 17, 2009 Permalink |
her characterization about zoroastrian is bullshit.
Dan 12:00 am on May 18, 2009 Permalink |
If you want to see how these people think, check out ActivistChat.