Comments on: Imagine a delighted South Asian Muslim f …

By: HOMOPHOBE

HOMOPHOBE — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 04:33:49 +0000

YOU FUCKIN JEW, STOP BULLSHITTING ABOUT ISLAM AND HOMOSEXUALITY, I AM A CHRISTIAN MYSELF, AND I KNOW THERE IS NO WAY FOR HOMOSEXUALITY TO BE OKAY IN BOTH ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY

By: Despair

Despair — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:57:56 +0000

Oh and just fyi, I had quiet a physically abusive father, who vented his rage often, and I lived with my aunts for quiet sometime…as my parents were always not around..

just giving a suggestion of what maybe went wrong..

By: Despair

Despair — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:54:37 +0000

I don’t know what to say except that I am gay and I am muslim and all what tears me apart is how alot of people get to claim about why/if I am gay by choice or not and am I messed up or not, and how difficult it is to think of what kind of life am I supposed to lead.
Someone said something about throwing integrity and doing it for traditions sake..well sadly I cant seperate religion from integrity unlike how alot of people see that religion is something you do to not disturb the society around you, I do it because I believe in it, and being gay has caused to me question islam and life so hard that now I know for sure islam is the right way, but yet understand what it means to tolerate and how to be spiritual rather than traditional.

The only missing part..I cant aspire to life anymore…I dont fit with anything cause I am gay(attractions are not expressed infact disgusted of, and I have different than the norm guy interests)..I cant trust, I cant satisfy the people around me..I am too weird, and most of all with no will to live at all…for I dont want to disturb society but at the same time I dont want to loose my identity/integrity…Help..

By: PI.info

PI.info — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:03:51 +0000

Wow…an economics-based theory of homosexuality…even Marx didn’t do that. Very cool…

By: razib

razib — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 23:23:43 +0000

Powerful positive feedback loops are create in the social environment that turn some to the same gender for connection, emotional, and eventually for some, sexual sustenance, which is why an examination of how we structure society makes sense on this issue./i>

agreed. i think these people are re-habilitable toward their normal orientation. you can distinguish born from made gays probably by physiology (gay men have somewhat different brain structures than straight men).

Islam could better align with its own values concerning homosexuality by reforming the maladaptive social norms of sex segregation that foster male-female alienation and same gender attraction.

it’s not really islam, it’s economics. if people got married at 15 like they used to this wouldn’t be an issue. but if you have a society where men have to put off getting married until their 30s because they need to find a “good job” to support a family, no surprise that they start having sex with gay filipinos in lieu of ladies in their 20s

By: PI.info

PI.info — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:43:58 +0000

I agree that male rape probably does not account for any significant number of gays in the population. I was more looking toward the insight that some portion of the gay population comes from nature, some from nurture.

Islam purports to discourage/oppose homosexuality, yet it creates situations that nurture same gender attraction (as described in the narrative of the girl in the short film). Having said that, I don’t even think gays on the “nurture” side of the equation “choose.” Powerful positive feedback loops are create in the social environment that turn some to the same gender for connection, emotional, and eventually for some, sexual sustenance, which is why an examination of how we structure society makes sense on this issue.

Islam could better align with its own values concerning homosexuality by reforming the maladaptive social norms of sex segregation that foster male-female alienation and same gender attraction.

There is an implicit value judgment in what I’m saying – that heterosexuality is better than homosexuality – but I gather from the responses of gays to those who accuse them of “choosing” their preference is that most gays wouldn’t wish the difficulties of being (born?) gay onto anyone, and if they could have a gender attraction transplant they would, but there’s no such thing.

By: razib

razib — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:50:35 +0000

Razib – Do you then agree that sex segregation fosters homosexual behavior if not homosexuality? Also, perhaps not all homosexuals are “born” that way. Maybe early experiences result in identity formation. Recently I excerpted an article on recovery from male rape written by a therapist:

yes and yes. in the first example, i know gay american men who love the fact that many men from muslim societies are already experienced with homosexual sex, so paying them to take the “dominant” position if they’re in need of money for sex is totally possible. as long as it’s kept quiet many gay men enjoy the fantasy of having sex with straight men, and men from ‘traditional’ cultures are obviously a better bet than american men who expected to have sex with women during their formative years.

for your second point, extreme situations can cause psychological changes. but obviously i doubt most males are homosexual due to male rape. even the higher than typical sexual abuse rates of course might have to due to the particular vulnerability of homosexual boys and the closeted nature of adult homosexual males. i guess we have a causal conundrum here. that being said, from what i know of ex-prisoners (i have known some in the past), their homosexual experiences (including traumatic rapes) don’t turn them gay once they get out. so perhaps it is different for kids.

By: PI.info

PI.info — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:30:21 +0000

Razib - Do you then agree that sex segregation fosters homosexual behavior if not homosexuality? Also, perhaps not all homosexuals are "born" that way. Maybe early experiences result in identity formation. Recently I excerpted an article on recovery from male rape written by a therapist:

Many boys who have been abused by males erroneously believe that something about them sexually attracts males, and that this may mean they are homosexual or effeminate. Again, not true.

If a person has a belief about his or herself and acts on it, it becomes true because it is believed. The more acts and interactions, the more "confirmed" the belief becomes. The person may not have been born homosexual, but acts and behavior has reinforced what was initially an erroneous belief and made it the reality.

By: PI.info

PI.info — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 14:16:46 +0000

Muse – I used to think as you do, but after having watched the conservative Republican party over these past 8 years and the constellation of gays that have served in high places in support of conservative values, I no longer believe “living a lie” is a problem for some. All of those people had a choice in this country about where to invest their political energy, and they chose a party that stands against them in every way (except for the libertarians). I can only speculate on this, but perhaps some people love tradition and traditional values more than they love integrity, and that may be just as true of the gay Muslim community.

By: razib

razib — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 06:38:05 +0000

Recently, Umar, in his response to Yusuf Smith, referenced stories of homosexual behavior at Islamic madrassas, which again point to the possibility that strict sex segregation fosters homosexual connection.

there’s a difference between those who engage in homosexual acts to “release” their impulses in sex-segregated situations (some muslim cultures, prisons, religious communities, ancient athens, etc.) and obligate homosexuals. i am very skeptical that the men who engage in homosexual acts in a sex segregated circumstance ever “learn” to prefer same sex relationships. the situation maybe different for women, for whom there is more of a balance between physical and emotional aspects. i know of many straight women who have experimented with lesbianism, very few straight men.