The interfaith effort to recover the essential whup-ass nature of God:
The Sunnah and history of Islam is rewritten and the likes of Khald Ibn Waleed (r.a.) are downplayed and the Prophet (s.a.s.) and the Sahabah are made to be non-violent hippies who sat around gawking at butterflies all day. Northing could be further from the truth. The Prophet {s.a.s.) was a warrior and many of the Sahabah that he loved were straight-up killers. Others were robbers (robbing the caravans of the kufar). Others took women and young girls as the booty of war. Islam spread through jihad and was sustained by the sword of very masculine men.
Mars Hill pastor Mark Driscoll:
What bothers Driscoll — and the growing number of evangelical pastors who agree with him — is not the trope of Jesus-as-lover. After all, St. Paul tells us that the Church is the bride of Christ. What really grates is the portrayal of Jesus as a wimp, or worse. Paintings depict a gentle man embracing children and cuddling lambs. Hymns celebrate his patience and tenderness. The mainstream church, Driscoll has written, has transformed Jesus into “a Richard Simmons, hippie, queer Christ,” a “neutered and limp-wristed popular Sky Fairy of pop culture that . . . would never talk about sin or send anyone to hell.”
Gen. JC Christian, patriot scribbles:
Muse 2:44 am on January 18, 2009 Permalink |
Wow. I feel so proud to follow the religion of killers.
…I dont even know where to begin.
thabet 4:30 am on January 18, 2009 Permalink |
As a woman you are not allowed to begin. Anything.
To even entertain such thoughts is a clear indication that you are a FemiEnviRIMentalist Hippy.
Umar 6:05 am on January 18, 2009 Permalink |
Yes I must immediately go to the nearest liberal arts college to take a course on “maleness” and learn how to hate myself and all men. Then go to John Stewart and see what parts of Islam he finds outdated and then create a new deen and I will be OK walking down the street with a man bag on my way to see Milk before I go home to see my wife, oops I’m sorry I meant to say “partner”.
Fatima 5:57 pm on January 30, 2010 Permalink |
I have not doubt that YOU umar lee ARE A RAND INSTITUTE MUSLIM!!
Tariq Nelson 7:47 am on January 18, 2009 Permalink |
What Umar is saying is actually historically accurate. I think he has a problem with the rewriting of history that is going on.
PI.info 8:35 am on January 18, 2009 Permalink |
I wouldn’t sweat it Umar. Muslim feminists (not the one’s that hang with neoconservatives) are more protective of Islam than critical of men, sometimes even more so than protective of women.
Safiya Outlines 11:26 am on January 18, 2009 Permalink |
Salaam Alaikum,
Umar, I have a question for you. Why all the criticism for Shaykh Hamza and none for Imam Zaid? After all, they have both worked on numerous projects together and Zaytuna is a joint project between them both. Does Imam Zaid’s working class roots mean he can say exactly the same things but somehow be exempt from criticism for them?
Btw, I think you’ll find that the Islamic stance on backbiting has never changed.
aziz 10:25 am on June 2, 2009 Permalink |
this was a good question that was never answered.
thabet 11:33 am on January 18, 2009 Permalink |
Sh. Faraz Rabbani has responded to Umar Lee’s charges against Sh. Hamza Yusuf at DeenPort.
thabet 11:34 am on January 18, 2009 Permalink |
It is as bad history to deny the violence that allowed Islam to leave the Arabian peninsula as it is to reduce the violence to crude stereotypes about oversexed killers.
Also, Umar’s comments on taqlid as a barrier to the Qur’an and sunna don’t make any sense. We all pay heed to ‘authorities’, and that is what taqlid is all about.
Muse 7:22 pm on January 18, 2009 Permalink |
What makes me sad is that the definition of masculinity includes being killers and rapists, and that’s how the best generation of Muslims is being described. What happened to “murawwa” and dignity and honor? His definition really is an insult to all men, not to mention the Sahaba (though I’ll give Umar the benefit of the doubt and assume he did not mean to insult them).
It is historically accurate that the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions engaged in battles, and in those battles killed people, but in Umar’s post there is no contextualization and no explanation of the issue. Honestly, that excerpt above could be written by Robert Spencer.
But, as Thabet points out, what do I know – I’m just a woman.
PI.info 12:36 am on January 19, 2009 Permalink |
I see Umar has appended his original post with a note to another blogger named Ginny and “a self-hating man” at Talk Islam (me) that if we want some “drama” we should come to Saint Lou where he will fight us and make us die. Umar should look to the Quran for better guidance and more options, but why do I even need to say that? Given Umar’s time in the deen vis-a-vis me, he should be educating me. This response is more schoolyard than schooling.
He takes issue with the tag “maleness” as being the language of feminized males – and he’s right. I guess my sarcasm was too subtle for Umar. I restrained myself in trying to criticize Umar’s perspective without getting personal and insulting, but I couldn’t help letting a little sarcasm through. And how does Umar respond? Threats of violence.
I’ve got three other paragraphs here where I basically rip on Umar, but I’m going to leave those off the blog – practicing adab.
Maybe some time Umar and I can compare notes on how we white boys who have life experience in the hood (Oakland for me) can better mine the ghetto and black culture to build up our own authenticity. There’s useful opportunities to colonize here in America too.
Sabir 2:23 am on January 19, 2009 Permalink |
I actually agree with much of what Umar has to say, but I find his incessant chest-thumping to be bizarre (and mildly amusing). He’s a smart guy and he makes a lot of insightful observations, but the over-the-top and absolutist way in which he expresses his views–coupled with his need to constantly point out that he’s a working class tough guy from the streets–gets a little old. It seems that he’s insecure about being a White guy in a socioeconomic bracket of the Muslim community that’s predominantly African American (see his post about White Muslims, in which he concludes that Islam is essentially incompatible with White America while incredulously ignoring the fact that he himself is a White American Muslim). I think he’s trying to prove his ’street cred’ to himself and others by continuously stressing how tough and masculine working class Muslims like him are and how suburban immigrant Muslims are just the opposite. He should take a word of wisdom from the Geto Boys: “Real gangsta @$$ ni***s don’t flex n**s, ’cause real gangsta @$$ ni***s know they got ‘em.”
It’s kind of a shame, because if you cut through all the innuendo and simplistic generalizations, it’s obvious from his observations that he’s a really intelligent guy.
aziz 7:45 am on January 19, 2009 Permalink |
This thread is drifting. I have invited Umar to join Talk Islam as a front pager, and alhamdolillah he has accepted. My intention is to facilitate a discussion between all points of view within our shared franework of American Islam (which contrary to the Daniel Pipes et al view, is not a monolith). Blog to blog dialouge has its limits in terms of fostering civility; by bringing Umar here I hope to change the tone, of both sides. Adab is indeed my favorite Arabic word for a reason, and i think it is better preserved when discussing contentious issues when we are all colleagues.