From the Arab News:

The Ministry of Interior has denied reports published in a Washington-based online newspaper that Saudi officials had launched a massive crackdown on Al-Qaeda terrorists who were allegedly planning to attack pilgrims participating in this year’s Haj.

The Middle East Times – a sister publication of the Washington Times which is owned by News World Communications – carried the report on Dec. 16 quoting unnamed US intelligence officials.

The report said the Saudi government’s operation followed alerts that Al-Qaeda planned to launch a bloody assault on pilgrims.

Not that I have a problem with dissing Al Qaeda, but I don’t want to be tricked into carrying anybody’s propaganda. The Middle East Times is an organ of the far-right-wing Unification Church, and I don’t take anything it publishes as accurate unless I can second-source it somewhere else more credible.

Here’s a choice morsel of information to keep in mind when you’re perusing the Middle East Times:

At a 1983 birthday celebration for Moon, selected Unification Church officials acted out various religious and political leaders from history, including Jesus Christ, Mohammed, Buddha, President Reagan, and Japanese Emperor Hirohito. In turn, each of the officials came forward and bowed–head to the floor, three times–before Moon. The implication was that Moon was more exalted than each of these men.

A person could differentiate his/herself from a parasite by returning wealth to the community in charity and service.

if they dedicated their lives to it, as the nuns you describe do, then that would indeed be sufficient. But I dont think we are suggesting that all muslims who chooose to reside in the US enter a life dedicated to charitable service.

You’d need to devote yoru entire life to that sort of service to really make a meaningful contribution equivalent to what benefits you derive. In fact, those benefits are heavily subsidized as it is; your taxes are *not* your fair share of the cost.

I know of an order of Dominican sisters who live in a nearby town who take a vow of poverty as part of their entry into their order. They are organized as a nonprofit and pay no personal taxes. They exist on charity.

The difference between them and parasites though is that they give service to the community: they volunteer in a women’s shelter, run education programs, health programs, offer meditation retreats, women’s groups, political advocacy (how I know them), hold interfaith spiritual gatherings – and no one is ever excluded so they really do return at least as much to the civil society as they take out.

Aziz, to say ‘unequivocally’ yes is a big mistake, ya akhee. Regardless of what one thinks of the U.S. GWOT in general, there are countless examplese where in specific it has been a war of agression, a war of oppression, and one of killing, kidnapping, imprisoning, and torturing absolutely innocent Muslims.

It is perfectly valid to be a loyal citizen of your nation, a devout muslim, and a supporter of the need for a war on terror, AND a fierce critic of the specific way that war is being carried out.

Yes, Allah knows best, but I don’t think my position is one to be embarrassed of, nor warranting a black mark on the day of Judgement. After all, I exercised my vote and voted for the man who promised to end torture, close Guantanamo, and reorient the war towards Afghanistan.

Ifthe choices are, wage an imperfect war on terror , or wage none, then regretfully I choose the former. My regret is not that innocent muslims may be killed, it is that innocents may be killed, and the proscription against killing muslims is essentially irrelevant to this. It is morally incumbent upon us to articulate our moral values within the system and change it from within. Thats a responsibility and privilege that we as citizens of a democracy have, and we abdicate that responsibility by not voting.

Abstaining from taxes is not a protest, it is hypocrisy, because as a citizen you enjoy the benefits that the taxes everyone else pays. You drive on roads, you drink clean water, you send yoru children to school. Either you pay your share or you are a parasite upon society. If in your assessment being a citizen of the US makes you complicit in the murder of innocent muslims, then that is a legitimate view I can respect but disagree forcefully with; but such a view obligates you to renounce American citizenship entirely. Thats really the only intellectually honest action you can take if you genuinely believe you are culpable.

(thank you btw – this is a fantastic debate we are having and I am enjoying it immensely. I am going to link it from COB).

I’m recalling that there were Catholic Vietnam War protesters in the 1960s who took vows of poverty in order to legally avoid paying taxes. Probably not many Muslims in the US right now willing to take vows of poverty – entrepreneurs and wealthy life-lovers that so many of us are. And your stock in the marriage market would go WAY down…just imagine the horrified Aunties!

Some of those people weren’t afraid to stick out like a sore thumb and practice civil disobedience and protest against the unjust aspects of the American system. It may be useful at some point for a Muslim journalist or blogger to review the history of that movement, inshallah.

So, working with other U.S. citizens for good, maShaAllah. Working with the U.S. military…do something else. If you really want to harness, as you call it, state resources, then band together with non-Muslims to encourage the U.S. to decrease its spending on the military and increase aid for sustainable development among the worlds poorest people.

I agree taxpaying should not be viewed as unremarkable. First, I believe Muslims and all people in this country of goodwill and decency should do whatever they can to avoid paying any federal taxes as long as the U.S. spends such an obscene amount on the military and engages in unjust wars and foreign occupations. To be honest, especially if you have children, you have to be pretty wealthy to pay federal taxes. (I know many Muslims are pretty wealthy, many of us, however, are not). Those who do should consider withholding taxes as a protest.

The argument of those who consider voting to be shirk but allow the paying of taxes is that voting is a voluntary action while paying taxes is done under coercion.

I do not agree that voting is per se shirk but I do think voting is usually either counterproductive or pointless, and that involvement in electoral politics by a community that has not really thought out bigger issues of what is its place in this society and its mission in life is problematic for a lot of different reasons.

Allaah knows best.

I ask because I’m wondering if you think there is any permissible way US Muslims can partner with non-Muslim US citizens to utilize state resources to deal with this.

Also, I’ve occasionally heard and often read about Muslims who refuse to vote because to participate in Democracy is shirk. But it seems ridiculous to me that one would avoid shirk by not voting but still pay your taxes with no consequence to your soul. It can be convincingly argued (I think) that one is even more culpable when you own the weapons and infrastructure as a taxpaying American.

So in short, I’m interested in your thoughts on

Muslim/non-Muslim common military campaigns – especially when you own the weapons and training through your taxes.
Voting as shirk, but taxpaying as unremarkable.

It seems to me that by paying your taxes you obligate yourself to throw yourself completely into political life to try your hardest to ensure that the thing you own isn’t used for evil.

For all who have contributed to that effort in any way, even those of us who simply live in this country and have not done enough to stop it will be a great darkness for us on the Day of Judgement. Certainly, it is not legitimate for a Muslim to join with such an entity as the U.S. government in addressing such issues. To the extent, we in the Ummah have a problem with violent extremists, we must seek our own solutions, just like we must seek our own solutions to all the other problems facing us, including ones that are much more of a problem than the extremists like the oppressive U.S. allied regimes which rule over us. We must not support THulum in the name of doing good.

And Allaah Knows Best.