Comments on: Liberal nationalism: an oxymoron? Dis … http://talkislam.info/2008/07/01/liberal-nationalism-an-oxymorondis/ a crescent waxing eloquent Thu, 08 Jan 2009 16:51:03 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: aziz http://talkislam.info/2008/07/01/liberal-nationalism-an-oxymorondis/#comment-1372 aziz Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:12:29 +0000 http://talkislam.info/2008/07/01/liberal-nationalism-an-oxymorondis/#comment-1372 I think we need to be careful to distinguish nationalism and patriotism, however. Loosely speaking, I've always thought of patriotism as loving your nation enough to want it to improve, whereas nationalism being love of your nation to refuse to entertain the idea that it's less than perfect already. Jingoism, in this definition, becomes an extreme form of nationalism, whereas liberalism (also a term in need of definition) becomes compatible wth patriotism and also the moderate end of nationalism as well. In some ways I am both a patriot and a nationalist. Daniel Larison had a great series of debates with other academics and bloggers about the patriot vs nationalist debate. Here's a few links to some of his pieces on the matter: http://tinyurl.com/3rqjtq http://tinyurl.com/4xysxy http://tinyurl.com/3gnynw I think we need to be careful to distinguish nationalism and patriotism, however. Loosely speaking, I’ve always thought of patriotism as loving your nation enough to want it to improve, whereas nationalism being love of your nation to refuse to entertain the idea that it’s less than perfect already. Jingoism, in this definition, becomes an extreme form of nationalism, whereas liberalism (also a term in need of definition) becomes compatible wth patriotism and also the moderate end of nationalism as well. In some ways I am both a patriot and a nationalist.

Daniel Larison had a great series of debates with other academics and bloggers about the patriot vs nationalist debate. Here’s a few links to some of his pieces on the matter:

http://tinyurl.com/3rqjtq
http://tinyurl.com/4xysxy
http://tinyurl.com/3gnynw

]]> By: Willow http://talkislam.info/2008/07/01/liberal-nationalism-an-oxymorondis/#comment-1364 Willow Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:30:01 +0000 http://talkislam.info/2008/07/01/liberal-nationalism-an-oxymorondis/#comment-1364 Yes. Or at least, if there's a liberal version I haven't seen it yet. Typically by national we mean ethnic, and nationalist movements often lead to the expulsion of minorities (for example, the Jews from almost every Arab country in the ME during the post-colonial period), the persecution of minorities, or outright ethnic cleansing (ie the Balkans, Rwanda, etc.) I suppose the US back in the 1770's was an exception, but the Revolution created a nation. Most modern nationalist movements aim to shore up one that already exists. Yes. Or at least, if there’s a liberal version I haven’t seen it yet. Typically by national we mean ethnic, and nationalist movements often lead to the expulsion of minorities (for example, the Jews from almost every Arab country in the ME during the post-colonial period), the persecution of minorities, or outright ethnic cleansing (ie the Balkans, Rwanda, etc.) I suppose the US back in the 1770’s was an exception, but the Revolution created a nation. Most modern nationalist movements aim to shore up one that already exists.

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