razib
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10:02:26 pm on April 25, 2008 | # | |
Is Secularism and/or atheism “Western”? I recall a discussion with thabet about this years ago where he contended it was, and I disagreed. I am leaning more toward thabet’s position at this point….
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muse 1:31 am on April 26, 2008 | #
Secularism and atheism are not the same. If secularism means to give onto Caesar what belongs to him and to God what belongs to Him, then can’t we describe the rise of early Islam as “secular” in that sense, where Islamic law developed independent of the state?
aziz 9:12 am on April 26, 2008 | #
agreed. In fact one of the primary arguments for secularism is freedom to practice religion. Those who take secularism too far - such as in Turkey (itself an example of non-Western secularism), or Europe - are treating secularism as an end unto itself, but really properly implemented it should be a means, not an end.
Atheism is clearly not western, since eastern religions manage to function quite well without any need for an explicit god. Atheism need not equal anti-relgiousness or anti-spiritualism.
thabet 11:51 pm on April 26, 2008 | #
Heh. I have moved slowly in the other direction.
My main point (I think) was to be that we shouldn’t overlook the roots of secularism (or atheism and the Enlightenment). Most of these Good Things arrived in the Muslim world (or elsewhere) at the end of a gun.
At the same time though, I would say *just because* something can be defined as ‘Western’ in origin does not make it false, wrong or useless for others to take hold of, adapt, implement etc.